Bonsai or hydroponics?

[markreeve]

Hi

I'm new to bonsai nut and this is my first post.

I'm just getting back into bonsai after a long break. Since my last venture into this world I see the use of inert potting mediums are now popular with some people. I've tried some with a few of my recent young aquisitions.

My observation is that this now seems to be growing bonsai with hydroponics. Is this a fair comparison? If so has anyone tried using the hydroponic nutrient solutions rather than standard garden centre feeds? These are used on a daily basis using various watering techniques, some of which are automated. If someone has used them what have been the results?

I'm having a go with daily feed with regular fertilisers. Results so far are good. Yes the growth is rather course but I'm just trying to get some girth quickly at the moment and the weather her in Scotland has not been condusive to rapid tree growth recently, except for plenty of natural water!

Thanks in advance for any comments or info you experienced guys can give this newbie.

Mark

 

[daygan]

Essentially, if you understand that the definition of hydroponics is growing plants without an organic soil medium and providing nutrients directly via a nutrient-water solution, I think it's pretty safe to say that what a number of us are doing really is technically hydroponics (a specialized form, but hydroponics nonetheless). I think a few of us have come to that conclusion, actually. I don't know squat about the technicalities of fertilizer, so I wouldn't personally know what to say about the use of hydroponic nutrient solutions, but I'm sure there are some here who might have some opinions about that.

 

[davetree]

I have used those fertilizers on my bonsai. I am not sure how much better they are, supposedly the good ones are cleaner. I know they smell better than your regular fish fert.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

I have used the products from http://www.hydro-organics.com/home/ along with my reg fertilizers ... hard to say but I can tell you that all the trees have been really happy this year... so my plans are to keep it up

 

[logan3]

Ang3lfir3, what products are you using, there's a hydroponics store by my house I've been too.I was looking at some type of fired clay that looked like red lava rock and was wondering if anyone else has seen or tried this product? Pete

 

[davetree]

If it is round it is not so good, if irregular, it is probably good as a soil component. Ask the guys in the hydro store, they usually are very knowledgeable.

 

[rockm]

"My observation is that this now seems to be growing bonsai with hydroponics. Is this a fair comparison? If so has anyone tried using the hydroponic nutrient solutions rather than standard garden centre feeds? These are used on a daily basis using various watering techniques, some of which are automated. If someone has used them what have been the results?"

It is not a fair comparison. You're confusing convenience with technique. That bonsai and hydroponics sometimes share "soil" components is a useful coincidence. Some "soil" components in hydroponics simply have the characteristics needed in a sturdy bonsai soil. There are many other products that do that. For instance a pumice like material used to dry horse stalls is often used as a basic ingredient in some faster-draining conifer bonsai soils. That doesn't make bonsai the same as horse racing... I use swimming pool filter sand in some of my mixes. That doesn't make bonsai an aquatic sport.

If you go into bonsai with the idea that it is a form of hydroponics, you're starting at a disadvantage. Trees will not perform well with only a solution and scant soil. They will limp by, but they will NOT develop very well, if at all in such a situation.

Temperate zone trees will not survive. Tropicals might--for a while, but they won't turn into much.
To get optimal growth in a developing bonsai requires in-ground or development outside IN A CONTAINER with a substrate and soil.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

Ang3lfir3, what products are you using, there's a hydroponics store by my house I've been too.I was looking at some type of fired clay that looked like red lava rock and was wondering if anyone else has seen or tried this product? Pete

I use the Catalyst in particular ....

 

[daygan]

I know I'm just arguing semantics here, and I hope I don't sidetrack the thread, but I still think that if you look at the definition of what hydroponics actually is, and don't allow what one normally sees as as "hydroponics" by normal hydroponic growers to misdirect one's understanding, we can still classify the growing technique that many bonsai practitioners use wherein trees are planted in a non-organic soil medium and fed using fertilizers that are delivered as a solution in water as hydroponic.

Definition: Hydroponics is a subset of hydroculture and is a method of growing plants using mineral nutrient solutions, in water, without soil. (Wikipedia)

Therefore, anything that meets these conditions, by virtue of definition, should be classified as hydroponics. The techniques that many of us use (non-organic soil medium, fertilizer delivered via water solution) meet those criteria, and it should therefore be understood that in these specific cases, we are using hydroponics, or at the very least, hydroculture. I don't mean to say "bonsai=hydroponics", and markreeve, I don't think that's what you mean either. Bonsai is not hydroponics, obviously, but a growing number of bonsai practitioners are using techniques which, I think, must, when considered honestly, be classified as hydroponic.

The mistake that can easily be made is that one observes commercial hydroponics and confuses peripheral details which are not core stipulations of the definition of hydroponics (it's not in a pot; it's a vegetable, not a tree; the water is being delivered mechanically, not manually) with being core characteristics of hydroponics. They're not.

Now, that is not to say that I believe that any kind of fertilizer that is sold in a hydroponics store must naturally be appropriate for our trees. Rockm is absolutely correct in making the distinction between normal hydroponics and our trees in pots. Normal hydroponics usually is done with plants that are quite different from our trees, as you certainly know. Regarding effectiveness, we should certainly consider a tree's unique needs. Learning from our own experiences and others with experience would of course be helpful in this regard. It seems that davetree and Ang3lfi3 have not had bad results with the products that they have used.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

daygan a well thought out and well written response.... heck I'm re-convinced

FWIW I only used the products because there was no Kelp emulsion on hand at the store I originally purchased it from ... however by reading the product label I realized that it is basically kelp/molasses emulsion ... so I tried it as an alternative ... I still use kelp emulsion as well just sometimes I like to mix it up and swap out for something else

 

[markreeve]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I'm not thinkinging of growing all my trees hydroponically. I have some out in the ground, some in soil mixes but wanted to try some using hydroponic principals to see if it worked. With the very early stage I'm at I have a lot of very young and small trees and am looking for successful ways of getting some growth and girth onto them quickly. Nothing I have is anywhere near a bonsai pot yet so rockm don't worry I'm not pruning my trees in "budgie smugglers" yet!!!

 

[Jan Harvey]

Hydropics is Best

Hydroponics is a mixture of hydro culture and mineral nutrient solutions, for growing plants using in water. Mostly people think may this seems to good or not, but the truth is that there is a good reason to use hydroponics.