bonsai paste

[Dav4]

You hear that, @Adair M? You’re disagreeable and your cut paste covered trees suck!!! I guess it must be a Georgia thing...

 

[Adair M]

You hear that, @Adair M? You’re disagreeable and your cut paste covered trees suck!!! I guess it must be a Georgia thing...

I guess I’ll just quit bonsai then.

Darn! I was just getting the hang of it, too!

Do ya think that if I move to Michigan my intelligence will improve so that I can blindly follow a scientific white paper that has no relevance to what I’m doing? Or, I can snub my nose to all the bonsai Masters who use inorganic soil, because I can grow sticks in pots in dirt?

Hold my beer, let me pack my bags...

 

[Dav4]

I guess I’ll just quit bonsai then.

Darn! I was just getting the hang of it, too!

Do ya think that if I move to Michigan my intelligence will improve so that I can blindly follow a scientific white paper that has no relevance to what I’m doing? Or, I can snub my nose to all the bonsai Masters who use inorganic soil, because I can grow sticks in pots in dirt?

Hold my beer, let me pack my bags...

Yup, give it up, Adair! Y’aint no good at it, bless yer heart!

 

[Adair M]

Oh, wait. At first he says, “I disagree”. Then, he calls ME “disagreeable”.

Huh? I thought Forsoothe! Disagreed with me! Doesn’t that make HIM disagreeable? Or is he the disagreeer? Can a disagreeer call someone else disagreeable? Is that the pot calling the kettle black?

I’m so confused!

Forget it! I can’t move Michigan! I’ll never figure out how to agree to disagree up there if we can’t figure out who is the disagreeer...

 

[Dav4]

Oh, wait. At first he says, “I disagree”. Then, he calls ME “disagreeable”.

Huh? I thought Forsoothe! Disagreed with me! Doesn’t that make HIM disagreeable? Or is he the disagreeer? Can a disagreeer call someone else disagreeable? Is that the pot calling the kettle black?

I’m so confused!

Forget it! I can’t move Michigan! I’ll never figure out how to agree to disagree up there if we can’t figure out who is the disagreeer...

Bless yer heart, little Adair. You just ain’t capable of comprehendin’ and understandin’ Those 35 year old high fallutin’ science papers... not yer fault, though... likely yer upbringing or the southern humidity er somethin’

 

[Adair M]

Bless yer heart, little Adair. You just ain’t capable of comprehendin’ and understandin’ Those 35 year old high fallutin’ science papers... not yer fault, though... likely yer upbringing or the southern humidity er somethin’

So, I don’t have to quit bonsai after all?

Oh good. That means I don’t have to take all these little trees to the dump. That place stinks!

 

[Forsoothe!]

I guess I’ll just quit bonsai then.

Darn! I was just getting the hang of it, too!

Do ya think that if I move to Michigan my intelligence will improve so that I can blindly follow a scientific white paper that has no relevance to what I’m doing? Or, I can snub my nose to all the bonsai Masters who use inorganic soil, because I can grow sticks in pots in dirt?

Hold my beer, let me pack my bags...

Now hold on, you guys gotta be Certified to enter the Great State of Michigan. I don't think you have the qualifications. Maybe I can get you into a re-education program. Can one of you operate a scissors?

 

[Adair M]

Now hold on, you guys gotta be Certified to enter the Great State of Michigan. I don't think you have the qualifications. Maybe I can get you into a re-education program. Can one of you operate a scissors?

Oh, I see, you’re “Certified”! That explains a lot! Lol!!!

Geez... what a thread!

 

[leatherback]

This is the study that changed the pruning rules for trees right? Where you should leave the branch collar on the tree, as it speeds up the growth of bark, and reduces die-back?

Hm.. Why do we bother with taking a nib out of the trunk when we remove the branch. We should be leaving a stub when trimming. THEN it will heal faster.

As an academic I am always surpised how good people are at taking an academic study out of context and pretending it is valid in all other situations.

 

[Igor. T. Ljubek]

I think it's not a question about using or not using a cut paste. You should ask yourself first when, if and how to use it on your bonsai to get optimal results.
1. At what angle you do your cut? This is very important question. Horizontal cuts/wounds rots way faster then 45% angle or close to vertical cuts for example.
2. Bigger cuts need more time to completely seal over, you can expect rot, if you don't seal bigger wounds with a cut paste. You can avoid wound rot if you live in a very hot and windy zone
3. No need to use cut paste on a very small wounds. Depends on species, zone, time of the year, though.
4. What species do you have in mind? I use cut paste on hornbeam, beech, maple ..., but avoiding it on hawthorns, because hawthorn's wounds won't heal anyway and i simply leave the wound for a future carving. I also don't use it on wounds that will never heal completely. I let them rot until they are ready for carving.
5. At what time of year you do your cuts? If outside is freezing than i guess you don't use your paste, unless you can get a one with frost protection (not sure if something like this exists)?
6. You don't want to use cut paste on moist/wet wounds. (Hornbeams, birch, some maples can "bleed" for a couple of days.) Sometimes i need to wait for about 2 or 3 weeks before i get the wound dry enough on these species. But before i apply a cut paste i clean the wound again with a very sharp knife.
7. Do you know how to seal a wound with a paste? Because most people don't. They just quickly apply a tiny layer of paste on top of the wound with their finger and that's it. And they even don't seal it completely!

 

[Forsoothe!]

This is the study that changed the pruning rules for trees right? Where you should leave the branch collar on the tree, as it speeds up the growth of bark, and reduces die-back?

Hm.. Why do we bother with taking a nib out of the trunk when we remove the branch. We should be leaving a stub when trimming. THEN it will heal faster.

Good Question, good answer at post #32 Actually, the basics of pruning trees are not new, just like the controversy of painting shut or not. The study, if you bothered to read it, says that painting has no effect. The tree closes the wound, or not, with its own chemistry, and that varies widely between species, and individuals based on the health of the tree. So, you can paint the wound closed, or not, with this or that preparation, and life goes on, the tree does its job, too.

Objecting to new or different systems being presented in pruning, weed control, soils, or whatever is just like objecting to someone's taste in styles for trees. Some like "natural", whatever that is. Some like ancient, aged, rugged looking. Some like pretty, feminine, flowery. Which is best? Let's just ask the biggest mouth how we should do everything and not worry our little selves...

 

[0soyoung]

Just about anything that is a moisture barrier will do. Saran wrap, parafilm, vasaline, a wad of damp sphagnum kept damp, etc., etc. What ever it is that you use, that moisture barrier need only remain in place for a few weeks.

 

[rockm]

OK, you didn't read much of it, but others considering the issues here might find it cogent. And, people can take for what it's worth whether or not the wood is different if you whisper in its knothole, "Grow like bonsai, 'cause if you grow like lumber, you're a different kind of wood." Sure. I'm convinced!

Might be worth a stroll through THIS thread from a few years ago. Bill Valavanis weighs in (he's no uneducated, unfamiliar noob--in case your unfamiliar with Bill's work...

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/dr-shigo-and-tree-pruning.2666/page-2#post-35850

 

[Crawforde]

This is the study that changed the pruning rules for trees right? Where you should leave the branch collar on the tree, as it speeds up the growth of bark, and reduces die-back?

Hm.. Why do we bother with taking a nib out of the trunk when we remove the branch. We should be leaving a stub when trimming. THEN it will heal faster.

As an academic I am always surpised how good people are at taking an academic study out of context and pretending it is valid in all other situations.

That happens way too often and is the major impediment to doing my work efficiently.

 

[leatherback]

The study, if you bothered to read it, says that painting has no effect. The tree closes the wound, or not, with its own chemistry, and that varies widely between species, and individuals based on the health of the tree. So, you can paint the wound closed, or not, with this or that preparation, and life goes on, the tree does its job, too.

Yet if you look at th edata they present, you cannot but wonder.. Did they perhaps have the wrong setup that gave them a "no differences" answer. 20 trees is hardly a powerfull sample size for natural systems (I know I did some tests on fysiology using 160 plants, in a greenhouse setting so under controlled conditions. ).

I am contiously ignoring the drill-hole effects, as we do not typically drill holes in trunks.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Can we agree that we should trim the branch flush with the top of the callus/collar, whereupon the stub will shrink back to approximately flush with the trunk surface so the trunk's undamaged bark can cover the wound faster and look neater?

(I use a knob cutter so there is a slight depression in the center of the "flush"cut)

 

[leatherback]

Can we agree that we should trim the branch flush with the top of the callus/collar, whereupon the stub will shrink back to approximately flush with the trunk surface so the trunk's undamaged bark can cover the wound faster and look neater?

No, this makes no sense whatsoever. Wood that shrinks back to be flush with the trunk? Never seen it happen. Instead, I do see bulges on trees where bark has covered the collar, taking many years to be rendered smooth to the trunk, due to the trunk growing and smoothing out the bulges:

 

[Forsoothe!]

You're proving my point. If you don't cut back far enough, it won't shrink back far enough, leaving a stub sticking out beyond the the trunk line. I'll find a pine that was cut back too far so a hole formed where the branch shrunk back into the tree and the trunk bark that was damaged by the flush cut taking off the collar won't grow over the hole for a very long time. I'll be back when I find one to photograph. Meanwhile, you can dream up an alternate explanation for the holes in the sides of trees that I'm talking about.

According to Vance Wood, Mugos are contrary to this rule. They need to have the stub left until it hardens, then taken off ~flush~.