Bonsai soil off to market

[daytona1911]

Just got one of 4 pallets off today . Both grades of soil . We have a course and a fine blend.
Coarse is : 1/3 each of haydite, lava and calcinated clay with a splash of pumice and akadama and a little charcoal for good measure.
Fine is : 1/3 haydite, 1/3 calcinated clay, and 1/3 pumice with a spash of akadama and some charcoal.
I went through like 20 different aggregates and arrived at these blends. They all work, but these just seem to work better. I hear issues with calcinated clay, but using primarily organic fertilizers, I havent seen issues. any thoughts on available products to make the mix better without having to raise the price of material? I'm happy with price now and it is very competitive. using too many aggregates I have to buy 6 pallets of to be competitive is already taxing enough, but im open to suggestions.

 

[NewWorldBonsai]

Looks pretty awesome. I'm curious what you think about the 1/3 lava 1/3 turface 1/3 sifted pine bark fines mix?

Thanks for posting, I have so so much more to learn yet. The more I read the more I realize how little I really understand haha

 

[Vance Wood]

Looks pretty awesome. I'm curious what you think about the 1/3 lava 1/3 turface 1/3 sifted pine bark fines mix?

Thanks for posting, I have so so much more to learn yet. The more I read the more I realize how little I really understand haha

That's pretty much the mix I use and have used for years. I have never had an issue with it, for deciduous trees that like things with a bit more moisture I will increase the level of composted pine bark, aka composted garden mulch, by another 1/3.

 

[Beng]

Someone pre-mixed and boxed four pallets of these mixes for you? If so how point us towards them, sure would save me a lot of time if it's affordable. Looks like a good mix.

Mine is similar except I currently use akadama in the place of the turface in yours. That will likely change with akadama supplies mostly spent in the US.

 

[evmibo]

1/3 lava 1/3 turface 1/3 sifted pine bark fines mix?

Before repotting earlier this month I made some of this mix (sifted) with some club members. I'm liking it more than my previous mix of 1/2 turface 1/2 pine bark. It's still early in my experience, but I think having the lava incorporated allows more oxygen to the roots (slightly larger particle compared to extra turface) yet holds moisture (more porous) well enough that you aren't drying out too fast.

Through my club I got two 5 gallon buckets of it for $20

 

[daytona1911]

Looks pretty awesome. I'm curious what you think about the 1/3 lava 1/3 turface 1/3 sifted pine bark fines mix?

Thanks for posting, I have so so much more to learn yet. The more I read the more I realize how little I really understand haha

Ill tell you, 18 years ago I used 1/3 pine bark, 1/3 Chattahoochee stone and 1/3 calcinated clay. It was what my Sensei used and it was what was supposed to work in central Florida according to those in the know before me. Then professional bonsai artists came in to our club over the years suggesting different amendments. Some would work, some wouldn't.
See, we have some years where it rains from June to November everyday in the afternoon for 1 hour, all the while its 95-103 degrees out with 95% humidity. A totally different weather pattern for sure.
So what happens is, everything grew great in that original mix the first six months, even better than other mixes because the drainage is great, and the pine bark keeps moisture in the soil as well. But with the added moisture, the pine bark starts to turn to mush that first year. Also, its been hypothesized that chemical fertilizers speed up the rot as well. So after the initial excellent growth, you start to get root issues. Such as root rot, general lack of vigor, clogging and general lack of good permeation of the mix. Now, some areas can counteract this by careful controlled watering (IE watering when the soil is almost dry) but with the rains and the intense heat and humidity, which speeds decomposition of the pine bark, its not really realistic with 1000+ trees.
A few guys in the know, guys Im sure you have read about, who have been all over the states as of late, have basically put me in the right direction as of around 5 years ago. I used to have to repot every 1-3 years everything. Not because they were so full of roots like they should be, but because the trees were actually in a mucky mess and/or had chlorotic conditions due to inability to uptake nutrients because if bad soil. Repotting would fix this issue, only to have it come back in a year or two. Going with 100% inorganic mix alleviated the issue. and my Pines and junipers thanked me profoundly for it. The only time I repot now is when the trees are almost root bound. Granted, I take the surface 1" off every January, but thats it normally.
So to answer the question. No, I don't use pine bark in bonsai soil. In deeper plastic training pots I do only because its a lot cheaper. 50/50 pine bark perilite mix. But in a bonsai pots. nope.
BTW I water my 2-6 inch trees once a day, and the mix keeps them plenty moist between waterings. if they are starting to dry too much, I put them in a tray of calcinated clay. I dont add organics. With my cypress, I put them in deeper pots and put them in a tray of water in the summer.

 

[daytona1911]

Someone pre-mixed and boxed four pallets of these mixes for you? If so how point us towards them, sure would save me a lot of time if it's affordable. Looks like a good mix.

Mine is similar except I currently use akadama in the place of the turface in yours. That will likely change with akadama supplies mostly spent in the US.

No, I premixed and boxed this for them. We wholesale and retail bonsai soil all over the country.

 

[daytona1911]

I do hear of other aggregates put in the mix. I have used course sandblasters sand, leaf mould, fir bark, aliflour, crimson stone, chatahoochee stone, among other mixes. Anything out there most people dont know about that is working?

 

[JudyB]

how about haydite, or river sand?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Pretty cool stuff. Thanks for sharing part of the process with us. I always enjoy mixing my own soil, but it took me a while to find turface. Like with cooking I often go with instinct when mixing my soil, which I imagine could lead to problems later down the road when a tree starts acting up and I can't remember what variables are involved.
I thing the main change I am making this year will be to move to a mainly inorganic mix of turface and lava, but to use 5-10% orchid sphagnum as my organic component. In the past my sister has provided me with some of her vermi compost, which I think is pretty amazing stuff. It'll dry into chunks that just shrink when they break down rather then clog.
I remember someone toying with the Idea of creating a structured soil of lava coated with clay or compost. Gooey on the outside and crunchy in the middle to hold the structure. I'm not sure how that would hold up over time.

 

[bonsai barry]

I have been slowly changing my mix and using less turface and more pumice, which I buy at feedstores under the brand name "Dry Stall". I like the shape and size of the Dry Stall more than the turface.

 

[bonsai barry]

No, I premixed and boxed this for them. We wholesale and retail bonsai soil all over the country.

Do you have a web site? I'd like to see your products.

 

[Vance Wood]

how about haydite, or river sand?

River sand is usually too fine. Funny thing about sand, if you get it too fine it will hold water instead of allowing it to drain out. I use #2, (I prefer #3 but hard to find) sand blasting sand or swimming pool filter sand. Do not use Mistic White filter sand, it's too fine.

 

[daytona1911]

Do you have a web site? I'd like to see your products.

www.schleysbonsai.com
The soil will be back up tonight. We pulled it to revamp the mix by adding Akadama.

 

[JudyB]

I wonder if it's a mistake to start incorporating Akadama at a time when it's getting extremely hard to find.
I was planning on putting some in my mix starting this year, but when the trouble started, decided not to, as then I'd have to figure it all out again in another few years if it becomes extinct.

 

[dick benbow]

It's gonna be a problem for me, lack of akadama....I've been more than happy with 1/3 akadama, 1/3 pummice, 1/3 kiryu and a small amount of charcoal. I did some maples yesterday with the akadama being substituted with fir bark but not too happy having to go backwards,

 

[Vance Wood]

It's gonna be a problem for me, lack of akadama....I've been more than happy with 1/3 akadama, 1/3 pummice, 1/3 kiryu and a small amount of charcoal. I did some maples yesterday with the akadama being substituted with fir bark but not too happy having to go backwards,

I hate to be negative but I think some of you are starting to see what happens when you depend on something imported from over-seas. The product becomes forbidden, scarce or highly over priced.

A serious question: Are you just buying the hype or is this stuff really as good as you think it is. I have been growing bonsai for nearly sixty-years and I have never used akadama, or ever seen the stuff. All my materials are locally available and reasonably inexpensive.

You have to ask yourself one question: If the Japanese did not have akadama what would they use? It is after all a soil that is available locally-----in Japan. However if akadama was only available in America do you think the Japanese would be importing it from America. I think probably not.

 

[Beng]

Of the 10 or so trees i've repotted so far this year only one of them was in a mix of more then 3/4 akadama and 1/4 pumice as i'd ran out of other ingredients at the time. That trees roots were far and away more fibrous and dense then the others. All of my other trees were in a mix of equal parts Akadama, Pumice, and Red lava with a bit of charchoal. Definitely not enough of a sampling to say it was for sure the akadama but to me the roots were on a whole different level when there was more akadama in the mix. All my trees are treated and fertilized the same. I can't afford 3/4 akadama now nor would I suggest it at it's current price, but my maples sure love it.

 

[Vance Wood]

Of the 10 or so trees i've repotted so far this year only one of them was in a mix of more then 3/4 akadama and 1/4 pumice as i'd ran out of other ingredients at the time. That trees roots were far and away more fibrous and dense then the others. All of my other trees were in a mix of equal parts Akadama, Pumice, and Red lava with a bit of charchoal. Definitely not enough of a sampling to say it was for sure the akadama but to me the roots were on a whole different level when there was more akadama in the mix. All my trees are treated and fertilized the same. I can't afford 3/4 akadama now nor would I suggest it at it's current price, but my maples sure love it.

Of the ten trees you repotted were they all the same species? How many were conifers and how many deciduous trees? The one that had the fiberous roots, what was it?

Please be patient with me, I simply want to know. What is it about akadama that makes it so good? What is it in it's content that makes it superior to anything we have in America?

 

[Beng]

It wasn't a scientific test at all. Merely my observations so far. They weren't all the same, but 3 of them were tridents, and the trident with the best root development in the past year was definitely the one with higher akadama in the mix. I also defoliated it twice last year but my other tridents were also defoliated twice.

They all sit side by side on my bench so I can't think of any other reason for the drastic difference in root development.

Other trees i repotted so far were an Ilex, Japanese Larch, Crabapple, Mume, Black Pine, Japanese Cherry, Japanese Maple, and Korean Hornbeam. The second best looking root system was on an Ilex Serrata, it was potted in the Lava/Pumice/Akadama mix but had an extra part akadama as it is a tiny shohin tree and i can't water it 5 times a day.

The worst root system was on a crabapple I got from a bonsai nursery that was heavily peat based.

Ben