Bonsai tool set

[Ris]

I am looking at getting a Stainless steel bonsai kit, found a brand called
Tinyroots said to be made in Japan. Any info will be great on quality wise.

http://www.bonsaioutlet.com/tinyroots-ultimate-package-stainless-steel-tool-kit-trk-07/
Thanks.

 

[lordy]

I am not familiar with the brand. The price would indicate that they are on the higher quality side, however I understand that stainless steel is not going to retain it's edge as long as high carbon (usually black) steel. I think the benefit to stainless is that they wont rust, but properly cared for black steel tools wont either. Also, do you really need everything in that kit? I would suggest keeping you eyes open for a few of the most used types of tools in high-grade steel. I just got a couple of Masakuni tools on ebay that were new, but 20 years old (never used).

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I wouldn't buy each of those tools separately...and not each in stainless. The black carbon is good, half the cost, and can be sharpened much easier. I've never needed a rake, and the tweezers need to be strong or they're worthless to remove pine needles. Personally, I can't stand the butterfly scissors, and only use scissors shaped like those shown in the center. Size-wise, 210 mm is probably good for smaller trees, but I find myself automatically reaching for my 11" cutters as opposed to my 8".

No experience with the brand, but if I was in the market, I'd be going a la carte.

Wrong forum, BTW...

 

[Poink88]

I too am a proponent of getting what you want/need one at a time BUT this set looks nice (though I don't have experience w/ the brand) enough, that I don't mind having it myself. Some of it you might never use but at the price, I think you can factor that and still be ahead IF the quality is as nice as the ad/vendor claims.

If you are not in a hurry...with some diligence, you can find some bargain at eBay (far in between - but there). I just purchased another concave cutter last night (unplanned but can't pass up a good deal) LOL

Most of my tools are 8" and a few 7"...a few times I wish I have bigger tools but personally, I think 8" is sufficient for most jobs though I have big trees (bigger than most newbies have at least).

 

[Ris]

Thanks guys,
Don't really need all those but find that price wise was ok. Will be checking ebay for any deals.
I broke my Knob cutter lol on the last maple I got.

Thanks again and oops I didn't realize the forum would go under pine, only after I created the thread.

 

[lordy]

I was looking on ebay today and saw several Kaneshin tools or sets for less than what you were looking at. I have a Kaneshin concave cutter and it seems pretty darned good.

 

[QuintinBonsai]

My club sells Tinyroots brand tools. I personally have never used them. Our tool guy tells me they are some of the best Japanese-made tools money can buy. I use Fujiyama tools. I got a decent yet affordable set from Dallasbonsai.com for a much better deal than a single tool from TR will run you. I like the fact that the handles are plastic coated, they're sharp, and they do the job.

 

[Vance Wood]

My club sells Tinyroots brand tools. I personally have never used them. Our tool guy tells me they are some of the best Japanese-made tools money can buy. I use Fujiyama tools. I got a decent yet affordable set from Dallasbonsai.com for a much better deal than a single tool from TR will run you. I like the fact that the handles are plastic coated, they're sharp, and they do the job.

There is another problem with stainless, it tends to be brittle and sometimes will shatter if dropped on concrete or some other hard surface. Stainless is difficult to sharpen, you have to use a diamond grit stone, a regular water or oil stone wont do the job very well, and a diamond stone, due to the grit size, won't give you a razors edge, sharp enough to cut your finger off but maybe not as sharp as you might like it. I've worked with wood working tools most of my life and I have a philosophy; if a tool is not sharp enough to shave the hair off your arm it's not sharp enough. There is another axiom: The most dangerous tool is a dull tool.

 

[Bill S]

Good points from Vance on the SS

 

[Cadillactaste]

My club sells Tinyroots brand tools. I personally have never used them. Our tool guy tells me they are some of the best Japanese-made tools money can buy. I use Fujiyama tools. I got a decent yet affordable set from Dallasbonsai.com for a much better deal than a single tool from TR will run you. I like the fact that the handles are plastic coated, they're sharp, and they do the job.

Glad to hear it...got this set from the hubby for Christmas. Nice tool box...one of the reasons he chose this one. I had tools bookmarked I wanted. But sold individually...but he is clueless to technology. And couldn't find the bookmark. He felt this looked like a good complete set.

Not familiar on the brand though. So I did search to see what ones thought of them. Glad they aren't considered junk.

 

[Bunjeh]

Try Amazon

If you are just starting out and want to get the feel for how to use the tools prior to comitting to a master quality set, you can get a good deal on Amazon.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

There is another problem with stainless, it tends to be brittle and sometimes will shatter if dropped on concrete or some other hard surface. Stainless is difficult to sharpen, you have to use a diamond grit stone, a regular water or oil stone wont do the job very well, and a diamond stone, due to the grit size, won't give you a razors edge, sharp enough to cut your finger off but maybe not as sharp as you might like it. I've worked with wood working tools most of my life and I have a philosophy; if a tool is not sharp enough to shave the hair off your arm it's not sharp enough. There is another axiom: The most dangerous tool is a dull tool.

I concur with Vance, one will notice in woodworking that the use of stainless steel is nearly non-existent and the same with high quality kitchen cutlery. Carbon steel, cleaned and oiled, will last for an incredible length of time.

 

[Vance Wood]

I concur with Vance, one will notice in woodworking that the use of stainless steel is nearly non-existent and the same with high quality kitchen cutlery. Carbon steel, cleaned and oiled, will last for an incredible length of time.

Did you notice how much fun it is to try to sharpen Stainless? Can't do it without diamond grit stones.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

I have ceramics, so I can sharpen it, I just prefer not to. All of my tools are carbon steel (either white or blue) and that's by design, and the same goes for woodworking tools and cutlery.

Much like yourself, I prefer a super keen edge. For that reason I prefer steels that can be sharpened easily.

 

[Vance Wood]

I have ceramics, so I can sharpen it, I just prefer not to. All of my tools are carbon steel (either white or blue) and that's by design, and the same goes for woodworking tools and cutlery.

Much like yourself, I prefer a super keen edge. For that reason I prefer steels that can be sharpened easily.

We think alike my friend, I am a firm believer in the adage that a dull blade is a dangerous blade. The only time I have been hurt with my knives is when I became overwhelmed with a work load and let one of my blades, often used, become dull through use. I once had a friend that had a set of carpenter's chisels that he requested I sharpen for him. I did, and as I do with all of my knives, I test the sharpness by shaving the hair off my arms, as I did with these tools.

Several days after giving them back to him he came back to me in a low grade rage because he almost cut his thumb off. It seems that he had become so accustomed to the kind of force he normally had to exert on these blades when he attempted to use the newly sharpened blades instead of hanging up in the wood as they would normally, they cut through it like butter--like they should,--- and his thumb was in the way. Stainless will get dull but they sure wont take back an edge easily without a diamond stone.

 

[gordonb]

The reason they are so hard to sharpen is that they are harder than carbon steel. And yes, chefs use tungsten and other non-carbon stainless knives because they keep their edge longer. The disadvantage is tat you need either someone who knows how to sharpen theses tools, or power-driven honers to achieve the edge (or as stated, diamond grit stones/files).
I don't dispute that a good quality steel gives a good edge, or that it lasts - but there are good quality stainless 'steels' out there; you will get what you pay for with them.

 

[Vance Wood]

The reason they are so hard to sharpen is that they are harder than carbon steel. And yes, chefs use tungsten and other non-carbon stainless knives because they keep their edge longer. The disadvantage is tat you need either someone who knows how to sharpen theses tools, or power-driven honers to achieve the edge (or as stated, diamond grit stones/files).
I don't dispute that a good quality steel gives a good edge, or that it lasts - but there are good quality stainless 'steels' out there; you will get what you pay for with them.

There is no Stainless blade I know of that will keep a razor sharp edge with the kind of use bonsai will demand of them. Most people do not know the difference.

 

[jk_lewis]

And, if you drop a stainless tool on a cement or ceramic tile floor, they may chip -- quite easily. And that is NON-fixable.

 

[whfarro]

I concur with Vance, one will notice in woodworking that the use of stainless steel is nearly non-existent and the same with high quality kitchen cutlery. Carbon steel, cleaned and oiled, will last for an incredible length of time.

Vance and Goomba are correct about the challenges of keeping bonsai tools (and any cutting instrument for that matter) sharp and in goaod working condition. I learned a lesson in how to properly sharpen knives, axes etc. a long time ago in the Boy Scouts, a skill I now appreciate. I find most people do not understand how to sharpen a tool and either don't do it at all or do it improperly and damage the tool.

For what it's worth, most of my tools are Kaneshin and I purchased them as I anticipated needing them. This was at the recommendation of many on this forum.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

Gordon,

Japanese tools are made by forge welding high carbon steel for the edge to iron for the body of the tool. The edge can be made very
hard and the remainder of the tool can retain the toughness and flexibility required in use as a tool.

One of the other benefits of this is that since only the cutting edge is hardened it is very easy to sharpen the blade. I have both western and japanese tools, japanese have a 63~ Rockwell edge and they're easier to sharpen than western blades which have hardnesses in the high 50's.

Stainless by comparison has to be tempered to a lower hardness to achieve enough flexibility that it will not break in use. So what's left is a blade that is resistant to abrasion but does not retain a razor edge for very long. Resistance to abrasion and the ability to maintain a razor edge are two different things. Blades dull by rolling over the edge (which is why you will see western chef's using a steel to maintain their cutting edge), not by being abraded in most circumstance.

My understanding is that pines appreciate a very sharp edge for candle pruning.