Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Should I put a wiki up on the site for us to collectively build over time?
Bonsai Wiki?
- Thread starter Bonsai Nut
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CamdenJim
Shohin
Only if the Wiki has really good moderators. As others have said, the internet is the 21st century equivalent of the 19th-century American West. We need a couple of good "federal marshals" to keep order, review entries for accuracy, and edit or redact as needed.
If that's done, I would love it!
Jim in Alabama
John Ruger
Shohin
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A hell of an ambitious idea and I think it's great.
stacy allen muse
Chumono
I would prefer a "Wookie" 
But seriously... I think this is one big arguement waiting to happen!!!
In practice sounds good.
But seriously... I think this is one big arguement waiting to happen!!!
In practice sounds good.
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Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Well the wiki software I have in mind is pretty advanced. It would be integrated with the web site so it would allow people to make contributions using their Bonsai Nut alias (ie without having to log in and log out). Just as important, it would log all changes made, and who made them. If things got going well enough it might make sense to assign moderators to different sections. Importantly, as a reference work we would want it to be as fact-based as possible, without straying into subjective territory (or at least not without explaining both sides of an issue). We would have a lot of work just laying out basic definitions.
stacy allen muse
Chumono
been thinking about this more, and I am growing to like the idea... so if one posted, could their name immediately follow, which could be linked and clicked on to see other post one has made, so if one wanted to read up and varify if they felt this individual was legit they could??? Beside I would think that perhaps it would be taken more seriously if one had to own up to what they posted.
ex: Ficus are tropical plants, which often send out only two Ariel roots. (stacy allen muse)(2 Agrees)
Also, one could disagree with what has been stated by actually doing so, perhaps with a button like the "thanks" button, then list why they feel it is incorrect.
ex : DISAGREE: Ficus are tropical plants, but they are able to send out numerous Ariel roots. (super smart bonsai guy)(14 Agrees)
only prob. I see, is where does it all stop ??? Perhaps you allow only one disagree, then allow one rebuttle for why it was originally said, then others could even weigh in by voting with perhaps a similar approach as facebook has with it's "like" button, instead it could be an "Agree" button which would allow us here to weigh in on what we think is more acurate, by voting on the various statments, perhaps this might waive the need for a moderator.
It would make everyone here that participates at B-NUT a moderator for being able to cast their vote for what they think is more accurate ???
ex: Ficus are tropical plants, which often send out only two Ariel roots. (stacy allen muse)(2 Agrees)
Also, one could disagree with what has been stated by actually doing so, perhaps with a button like the "thanks" button, then list why they feel it is incorrect.
ex : DISAGREE: Ficus are tropical plants, but they are able to send out numerous Ariel roots. (super smart bonsai guy)(14 Agrees)
only prob. I see, is where does it all stop ??? Perhaps you allow only one disagree, then allow one rebuttle for why it was originally said, then others could even weigh in by voting with perhaps a similar approach as facebook has with it's "like" button, instead it could be an "Agree" button which would allow us here to weigh in on what we think is more acurate, by voting on the various statments, perhaps this might waive the need for a moderator.
It would make everyone here that participates at B-NUT a moderator for being able to cast their vote for what they think is more accurate ???
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
It's an interesting idea. Normally in a wiki you ask for people to post the sources of their information. For example you wouldn't just say "black pines are difficult" but rather "because of the nature of their care, black pines are not considered beginner bonsai (1)" and then your source would be footnoted (and hopefully a good source). In a case where there is some controversy you would post both points of view and footnote both.
Ang3lfir3
Omono
to tell the truth BNut ... it's probably more trouble than it is worth.... stacey allen muse stated its one big argument waiting to happen... bonsai is in soo many ways subjective...
take something as simple as the use of copper or aluminum wire .... many people would say never use aluminum on pines and I and many others would not condemn it (including my teacher who uses aluminum for everything) ... so who is right? some japanese teachers will teach to use it some of the time and not other times...
take the styling of trees as well.. all very subjective with many differing opinions across the world of bonsai...
anyways I hope you this makes sense... good idea .... doesn't work out as well in practice...
take something as simple as the use of copper or aluminum wire .... many people would say never use aluminum on pines and I and many others would not condemn it (including my teacher who uses aluminum for everything) ... so who is right? some japanese teachers will teach to use it some of the time and not other times...
take the styling of trees as well.. all very subjective with many differing opinions across the world of bonsai...
anyways I hope you this makes sense... good idea .... doesn't work out as well in practice...
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I don't think it would be TOO hard. Looking at your example of wire. I think everyone would agree on the ROLE that wire plays. I think people would agree about the importance of when and how you apply it, and when it is removed. Then you can discuss the types of wire and the strengths and weaknesses of each. Some people prefer one type - some people prefer another. That is easy enough to explain.
stacy allen muse
Chumono
I understand and agree... but what does one do when there is no actual sources to be footnoted ??? or as been stated before on another thread, that alot of the sources out there are crap ???
I guess where I am going with this is that there are going to be quite a few gaps where there are not to be found info that can be footnoted... that somethings are just figured out by experiments and trying new things.
jason biggs
Chumono
i would say NO.....there is too much grey area between opinion + fact.....
Attila Soos
Omono
I suspect that with time, it would draw a lot of traffic. And that is not a bad thing to be, when you create a website. It could become the number one bonsai website, since people prefer these wiki-type information sources.
But it could also become your full-time job, which is a scary thought, if you ask me. At some point, you may catch yourself spending hours on it every day, trying to clean up a mess that someone created.
Otherwise, it sounds like an exciting idea.
But it could also become your full-time job, which is a scary thought, if you ask me. At some point, you may catch yourself spending hours on it every day, trying to clean up a mess that someone created.
Otherwise, it sounds like an exciting idea.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
If there are gaps, there are gaps. I think we may find there is TONS of content we can put up before we start running into grey areas. The important thing will be to capture the "easy" 90% of stuff that no one will disagree on. There will always be subjective areas, but even such things as a comprehensive bonsai glossary would be of great benefit...
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Could the wiki have different sections built into it? Like a glossary section, with definitions of terminology, and then techniques section, perhaps divided into beginning, and advanced? And then a section for experimental, or subjective topics? This way people would be forewarned that there are facts, and also grey areas both. It would allow the newer people to learn terms, and allow them better communication with others, and also leave open the chance for newer ideas as well.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
A good Wiki should grow virally, with content stubs that are fleshed out over time, and which branches and becomes deeper as people add to them. More importantly, it provides a vehicle for us to take the content that is being created in the forums and SAVE it somewhere other than deep within a forum archive. On the old site I had an article system that didn't really work. Some sites offer blog space. I think a wiki takes us ultimately where we want to go and would provide a great resource for people to reference. It would take the place of a forum FAQ in terms of - if we find people asking the same questions over and over, we would write up the content and put it in the wiki...
jk_lewis
Masterpiece
There are a few other bonsai wikis out there -- several deal with software, but a couple deal with trees. Google.
By using REAL names or initials. I will continue to find it difficult to consider information furnished by "Outlaw maverick" or other pseudonyms as being worth my consideration. You are who you are -- not someone else.
By using REAL names or initials. I will continue to find it difficult to consider information furnished by "Outlaw maverick" or other pseudonyms as being worth my consideration. You are who you are -- not someone else.
stacy allen muse
Chumono
No, I'm with you and agree... and also agree with the fact that the benifits would far outway the troubles...
I also think perhaps some sort of calander of when to preform what type of various operations and proceedures, would be greatly benificial to those just starting out as well. This might help relieve some of the questions such as "is it ok to do some serious cutting back even though it's going into winter???"
Perhaps there could be a reminder as well, that comes up beside who is logged in on the opening page ?
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stacy allen muse
Chumono
Ang3lfir3
Omono
what we really need is a universal identity system ... maybe we can connect it with biometric data... excellent idea... lol ok </sarcasm>
honestly what you need for this kind of information is a stackexchange site.... http://stackexchange.com/about << people post questions.... someone answers and others vote on the best answers .... the most voted up answers are often accepted extra... community based question and answer .... kinda of like a wiki but more organic and the community decides what information is valuable....
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I checked it first. I don't see any really thorough ones. There is the Australian Bonsai one which is a good beginner site. Then there is the Wikipedia one... which has some excellent background information but in my opinion is not really the best place for in depth discussion of technical stuff. The best bonsai wiki used to be at bonsaitalk... but it is gone and all my attempts at contacting Matt have come to naught.
