Bonsai worthy?

[rockm]

Bonsai is an art, and as an art, subjective. Some people get too tied up into "rules" and try to foist their opinions onto you under the guise of said rules. I also think some could use a little couth too, some like to be blunt and reason that they're "just tellin it like it is" or whatever. Some people are just rude and that's that.

If you want to follow strict rules, then ask about that. If you want people's opinions (which it seems your asking), then buckle up lol. I PERSONALLY think it is an interesting tree, and would also have purchased it as you did. I'm interested to see how it turns out for you.

Jeez, I'm not tied up in the "rules" Just pointing out this really isn't all that "interesting" A lot of people who have been doing this for a while agree. We have some perspective that can be valuable if the person that asks for advice isn't looking for a "gee whiz what a nice tree" contentless response.

The majority of my trees (some are below) hardly follow "the rules." Beginners can mistake "ugly" and "weird" for "interesting." The term are not the same. Ugly mostly stays ugly or takes a decade or two to get past it. "Weird" is well, always weird and its appeal wears off after a few years, then it just becomes "annoying".

As for the owner being the "ultimate viewer," that CAN be the case, but not if you really want to advance your skills. I think I'm a great singer, my wife says I sound like someone stepped on a cat with a bad case of gas. Self-reference is a bad reference for an art that is supposed to communicate. Communication is not talking to yourself.

 

[rockm]

Also, Camellia have odd roots that need to be corrected in the early stages. I'd also suggest that the reason for having a camellia as bonsai is for the flowers. If that is so, then having a meaningless, aimless tangle of surface roots would seem to be an unneeded distraction. The owners of the camellia below had a similar tangle of roots that had to be sorted out.

 

[Cajunrider]

I like Camellia and am definitely will be looking for a good one to develop to a good one. Of course it will have a good root base and trunk, not the "tangle mess" in this post. I allow myself a few weird ones in my collection, knowing that they will never amount to anything but amusement to me.

The thing I am kicking myself when it comes to Camellia was the ones I failed to recognize their value and didn't collect them years ago when I had the chances. I'm talking large 70+ yr old beautifully shaped Camellias that I could have had for a song since the developer was getting rid of them. That was 20 years ago. Had I been interested in bonsai then, I would have some beautiful specimen now. I wish I had spent the $500 bucks for 4 trees that he asked.

 

[Cypress187]

I found this camellia today at the nursery. It looks interesting to me. Is it worth pursuing?

They don't seem to fuse, also it has a very straight grow-pattern.

 

[Cajunrider]

They don't seem to fuse, also it has a very straight grow-pattern.

Yes I know. I pretty much have decided that it will be kept for amusement. A whimsical use for a whimsical buy.

 

[Rid]

I feel very sorry for the people in your life......if there are any. I'd imagine there are not many people or things that meet your high standards of excellence. Heaven forbid you would be saddled with a "mediocre" child or wife. An insistence on perfection is usually a sign of feelings of low self esteem. Think about THAT for a minute.

With that.........I'm done.

Also, Camellia have odd roots that need to be corrected in the early stages. I'd also suggest that the reason for having a camellia as bonsai is for the flowers. If that is so, then having a meaningless, aimless tangle of surface roots would seem to be an unneeded distraction. The owners of the camellia below had a similar tangle of roots that had to be sorted out.View attachment 217281

i'm not a big fan of naming trees, but this one deserves "Buffalo Bill"
Ridley

 

[rockm]

I like Camellia and am definitely will be looking for a good one to develop to a good one. Of course it will have a good root base and trunk, not the "tangle mess" in this post. I allow myself a few weird ones in my collection, knowing that they will never amount to anything but amusement to me.

The thing I am kicking myself when it comes to Camellia was the ones I failed to recognize their value and didn't collect them years ago when I had the chances. I'm talking large 70+ yr old beautifully shaped Camellias that I could have had for a song since the developer was getting rid of them. That was 20 years ago. Had I been interested in bonsai then, I would have some beautiful specimen now. I wish I had spent the $500 bucks for 4 trees that he asked.

$500 for four substantial camellia trunks is a steal. They are not common as bonsai and can bring a hefty sales prices depending on trunk size and quality (which might be another reason to sort the roots on yours--you can greatly increase resale value...)

 

[MariaM]

Oh.... and yes after 21 years on forums like Vance Wood and Mark Rockwell and I we are the supreme authority on shitty material?

I don't think your work warrents such arrogance. From what I've seen of your Tridents, they're full of scars, thin spindly branches and not much nebari to speak of.

 

[leatherback]

{grabs popcorn}

 

[Bananaman]

I don't think your work warrents such arrogance. From what I've seen of your Tridents, they're full of scars, thin spindly branches and not much nebari to speak of.

That’s because I build them. I don’t buy them. Look at every tree Walter Pall has posted lately they all say “imported from Japan”. Probably thousands of dollars to boot. I’ll post any tree of mine from stump to what I have with anyone here over a five year span. Post um up if you got um! When I say stump I mean stump no branches.

 

[Cajunrider]

Just potted flowers now but I am enjoying them a lot.

 

[Cajunrider]

Just potted flowers now but I am enjoying them a lot.

PS: While they will be just potted plants, I can't help myself. After all these flowers are gone I will prune the trees. They may not be bonsai but by golly they will have ramification

 

[atlarsenal]

Nice view!

 

[Vance Wood]

Sorry, but you're mistaking "interesting" for "worthy." or "attractive. Understanding the line between all those is learned over time after you work on crap like this for a while...Those roots are completely hopeless can't be worked around. They're butt ugly for bonsai purposes and will remain ugly for as long as you (or the plant) live.

This is totally correct. You asked if the tree were worthy. On that principle the answer would be no because it does not fit the the parameters of design in the creation of a bonsai. However that does not mean you cannot take it on face value just because it pleases you for some reason. The fact you asked if it were bonsai worthy shows that this issue is in your mind and you believe the bonsai community may give it thumbs down.

 

[Cajunrider]

This is totally correct. You asked if the tree were worthy. On that principle the answer would be no because it does not fit the the parameters of design in the creation of a bonsai. However that does not mean you cannot take it on face value just because it pleases you for some reason. The fact you asked if it were bonsai worthy shows that this issue is in your mind and you believe the bonsai community may give it thumbs down.

Yes I know it is not worthy to be a bonsai by parameters of design of a bonsai. I've accepted that fact and am not arguing at all. I'm just pleased that it is pretty in its own way.

 

[Myka]

Kinda new to this forum, is it always this hostile? I was hoping a site of plant lovers would be, less angry.

The internet seems pretty simple to me, if you dont want to see something, dont look. You would never go to an exhibit and say these things to the face of the artist, you would just leave. Seems people get a lot braver behind the safety of their screen.

Hoping behavior like this is handled, as I dont like it and I will leave if there's too much.

I've been on this forum for a couple weeks now, and yep I see people here have a lot of passion. When there is a lot of passion for something, hostilities arise because people bring their emotions to the table. I think the way a lot of people handle themselves here is kind of ridiculous (assuming they are adults), but exactly like every other forum I've been a part of in the last couple decades (haha).

@Bananaman is one of my favorite posters simply because he doesn't sugar coat anything. I've learned through being self-employed that 99% of people need to be handled gently in order to listen to you, so I've learned this trick of manipulation. Bananaman has not (or chooses not).

Regarding the OP's tree - I know very, very little about bonsai so I can offer no advise, but I have noticed something about the people that participate in these forums. There are (at least) two types; those that are in bonsai for entertainment/hobby, and those that are in bonsai for the craft. Some people are confused about which type they are (which is entertaining for the rest of us, well for me anyway), and many people (the keyboard warriors) try to persuade others into switching types by arguing with them about who is right (which is much less entertaining). So the OP must choose, which I think s/he already has, whether this is a hobby tree or a craft tree. The OP has tact (which is the epitome of leaving emotions at the door), and I admire his/her responses.

 

[Vance Wood]

Is not the owner the principle viewer? Who says a person has to ply his art for someone else's enjoyment and not his own? Bonsai is an art. Not all people like all art. You certainly have a right to what you like, as have I, and ESPECIALLY the owner.

I think that's what I said, but that was not the question: Is this tree bonsai worthy ----and if you, even you, were to be honest the answer would be no. That does not change the fact if you fancy the tree and realize it will likely never have a place in a bonsai show of any worth. If you like the tree make liars of all of us who would reject the tree on the grounds of having no artistic bonsai future as it stands.

 

[Vance Wood]

I've been on this forum for a couple weeks now, and yep I see people here have a lot of passion. When there is a lot of passion for something, hostilities arise because people bring their emotions to the table. I think the way a lot of people handle themselves here is kind of ridiculous (assuming they are adults), but exactly like every other forum I've been a part of in the last couple decades (haha).

@Bananaman is one of my favorite posters simply because he doesn't sugar coat anything. I've learned through being self-employed that 99% of people need to be handled gently in order to listen to you, so I've learned this trick of manipulation. Bananaman has not (or chooses not).

Regarding the OP's tree - I know very, very little about bonsai so I can offer no advise, but I have noticed something about the people that participate in these forums. There are (at least) two types; those that are in bonsai for entertainment/hobby, and those that are in bonsai for the craft. Some people are confused about which type they are (which is entertaining for the rest of us, well for me anyway), and many people (the keyboard warriors) try to persuade others into switching types by arguing with them about who is right (which is much less entertaining). So the OP must choose, which I think s/he already has, whether this is a hobby tree or a craft tree. The OP has tact (which is the epitome of leaving emotions at the door), and I admire his/her responses.

That was a lot of huffing. Pillorying those of us who take the art seriously and the advancement of it seriously as well. Many of us try to teach others some of the finer principles of the ART when asked as was the case here, instead of promoting what I have come to view as the "Little Old Lady" bonsai from the now defunct Kmart, where art is not the issue but "CUTE" is the key word. You, by your own admission, know little about bonsai seems to find a way to intrude on this discussion as an over-seer passing judgement on the rest of us. I would venture I have spent more time on bonsai than you have spent feeding your face.

 

[Myka]

That was a lot of huffing. Pillorying those of us who take the art seriously and the advancement of it seriously as well. Many of us try to teach others some of the finer principles of the ART when asked as was the case here, instead of promoting what I have come to view as the "Little Old Lady" bonsai from the now defunct Kmart, where art is not the issue but "CUTE" is the key word. You, by your own admission, know little about bonsai seems to find a way to intrude on this discussion as an over-seer passing judgement on the rest of us. I would venture I have spent more time on bonsai than you have spent feeding your face.

The discussion has been finished for awhile with the OP explaining several times what s/he is doing with the tree, but the mudslinging continues, so there really was no intrusion to be had. Conversational intrusions are the basis of forums anyway. You took the ridicule upon yourself when really it wasn't bestowed upon anyone in particular, not even necessarily in this thread, and certainly not you directly. You did manage to provide a perfect example of what I was commenting on though (thank you...or not). Your last comment, meant to hurt (good job nice guy), might be significant if I was a fat person, but I'm not and if you knew me you would realize how funny that last comment is directed at a person like me.

Cheers, and carry on!

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Kinda new to this forum, is it always this hostile? I was hoping a site of plant lovers would be, less angry.

The internet seems pretty simple to me, if you dont want to see something, dont look. You would never go to an exhibit and say these things to the face of the artist, you would just leave. Seems people get a lot braver behind the safety of their screen.

Hoping behavior like this is handled, as I dont like it and I will leave if there's too much.

This forum rocks!
About the camellia 、not bonsai worthy. Time is precious. Get something worth your time whether for fun or for serious work or both.