Bottom-heat for a 2-day-old yamadori?

[SU2]

TL;DR: Heating pads are used under cuttings/propagations trays and seem to help, but I'm unsure if that's with the germination or with the root-growth; I have a new yamadori that I'm un-happy with the root-mass I collected, and desperately want to grow more roots, so to that end I've been considering using my heating pad under it's box/container to warm the substrate a bit- thoughts?

I just collected a Ruby Loropetalum that I'm very very badly wanting to survive, I didn't hard-chop it it was a small bush I probably lost 5-10 growing-tips in collection/transport but otherwise got it potted-it w/o issue, then proceeded to defoliate the lower ~40-50% of leaves on all shoots (to balance the canopy's needs to the (bad)roots' abilities to provide) Here's a pic of it before defoliation, haven't taken a post-defoliation yet:


I've brought it outside for some light (~2hrs indirect/mottled light) but am otherwise keeping it in my screened patio with a tarp over it (not touching it of course!) that isn't sealed but definitely reduces much/most transpiration loss; I also mist it a good deal (starting to consider using a weak 11-35-15 fert in the spray, I know foliar-feeding doesn't do much for established plants but for things where the roots aren't 'stabilized'/balanced to the canopy yet I think it may be smart, would love to hear thoughts on that idea!)

I've got two main concerns right now (well 3, if you count whether I should use some really light 1.1-3.5-1.5 fert in the spray when I mist) Firstly, is the (very weak) indirect light enough? I've brought it outside a bit for light *but* am considering setting-up my flood-lamp on it, that way I can give it more light but have control over too-much.
Secondly, the heating pad....right now it's warm temps/forecast but still, if using my heating pad under the thing would help in any way I'd be setting it up immediately!

Thanks for any thoughts on this, I've always stayed with easier specie (bougies, crapes) and this is the first time I've had a tree that I think I've got a chance of keeping but weak confidence in (I can usually tell within 48hrs that it's not gonna make it- I'm there now, but definitely not convinced this has made it yet!)

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Give yourself 90 days for deciduous... longer for conifers... before you can be confident they'll survive.

First, you need to have a good soil mix and container. I'll assume that container has holes drilled all over the bottom, but you should also make sure (given that it is plastic sitting on the ground) that you have it off the ground to allow the water to exit the pot and flow away. If you leave it on the ground put it up on a couple of bricks or something. Your soil mix looks a little suspect - you want a free-draining mix that has low organic content. It almost looks like you have your tree planted in 100% perlite(?) with rocks stacked on top to keep the perlite from flowing/blowing away? I use perlite for cuttings and that's about it = I use regular bonsai mix for yamadori. Maybe it is just a bad photo and that is really pumice

Second, indirect bright daylight is what you want. I'm not sure a screened patio is bright enough, but I don't know your setup. You want to set up your tree, put it under a humidity tent, and not mess with it at all. You can open the humidity tent to mist it, but that's it. Keep the humidity tent over it 24/7. Don't move it, don't prune it, don't defoliate it, don't do anything until it has been there 90 days, and/or is showing STRONG growth (not just a few buds popping). Your humidity tent plastic looks black(?) - you want translucent plastic that lets light through because otherwise your tree will be in a cave which is not what we want.

Third, no fertilizer of any type until it shows strong growth. Definitely no flood lights or artificial lighting. No heating pad.

 

[0soyoung]

First order, you need photosynthesis to grow roots --> the more sun the better. Risk is desiccation which is indicated by drooping new/soft growth for which the first step of remedy is shade and then humidity tent in shade. Desiccation can seriously harm your tree and can be fatal if you don't act pn eromptly. If you cannot keep an eye on it hourly in the afternoons, be conservative and keep it in part to complete shade.

Roots must get oxygen and must be damp. The solubility of oxygen in water goes down with increasing temperature. The diffusion of oxygen in water decreases with increasing temperature. Thus, there is a temperature for maximum root growth which is around 65F. So, maybe poke a meat thermometer probe into the substrate amongst what roots your yamadori has and set your heating pad to maintain a temperature around 65F according to it. Note that temperature will change markedly when you water and will slowly rise as the substrate dries (which, of course will be mostly in the afternoon).

 

[Maros]

Im with Oso on sunlight here. On other hand I disagree with Bnut about fertiliser. I would use (I do it on all my collected trees) slow release fertiliser from day one into substrate. Heat bed could be beneficial for roots.

 

[Zach Smith]

TL;DR: Heating pads are used under cuttings/propagations trays and seem to help, but I'm unsure if that's with the germination or with the root-growth; I have a new yamadori that I'm un-happy with the root-mass I collected, and desperately want to grow more roots, so to that end I've been considering using my heating pad under it's box/container to warm the substrate a bit- thoughts?

I just collected a Ruby Loropetalum that I'm very very badly wanting to survive, I didn't hard-chop it it was a small bush I probably lost 5-10 growing-tips in collection/transport but otherwise got it potted-it w/o issue, then proceeded to defoliate the lower ~40-50% of leaves on all shoots (to balance the canopy's needs to the (bad)roots' abilities to provide) Here's a pic of it before defoliation, haven't taken a post-defoliation yet:

I've brought it outside for some light (~2hrs indirect/mottled light) but am otherwise keeping it in my screened patio with a tarp over it (not touching it of course!) that isn't sealed but definitely reduces much/most transpiration loss; I also mist it a good deal (starting to consider using a weak 11-35-15 fert in the spray, I know foliar-feeding doesn't do much for established plants but for things where the roots aren't 'stabilized'/balanced to the canopy yet I think it may be smart, would love to hear thoughts on that idea!)

I've got two main concerns right now (well 3, if you count whether I should use some really light 1.1-3.5-1.5 fert in the spray when I mist) Firstly, is the (very weak) indirect light enough? I've brought it outside a bit for light *but* am considering setting-up my flood-lamp on it, that way I can give it more light but have control over too-much.
Secondly, the heating pad....right now it's warm temps/forecast but still, if using my heating pad under the thing would help in any way I'd be setting it up immediately!

Thanks for any thoughts on this, I've always stayed with easier specie (bougies, crapes) and this is the first time I've had a tree that I think I've got a chance of keeping but weak confidence in (I can usually tell within 48hrs that it's not gonna make it- I'm there now, but definitely not convinced this has made it yet!)

As a general rule, most every broadleaf tree will do best if defoliated upon collection. All cuts > 1/4" should be sealed. The tree will usually have minimal roots, no feeders, and therefore leaving foliage on does little more than suck moisture out of the trunk and root base that has no way to replace it. Shuffling it from outside to inside and back again is not going to help anything. Leave it outside, assuming it's been defoliated; otherwise, you're more or less on your own and in my opinion your odds of success go way down.

It's clear from your post that you are really loving on this tree. All that attention will do no good, and most likely will cause harm. Keep the tree watered and in semi-shade, but otherwise ignore it. You'll see new foliar growth within a couple of weeks, and you won't see new roots growing until they appear at the drain holes. Feed whenever the buds start pushing, keep on watering, but otherwise ignore the tree. You'll be glad you did.

Good luck!

Zach

 

[Zach Smith]

No bottom heat, either, by the way. Not needed, could be harmful when the roots start growing.

 

[SU2]

Give yourself 90 days for deciduous... longer for conifers... before you can be confident they'll survive.

First, you need to have a good soil mix and container. I'll assume that container has holes drilled all over the bottom, but you should also make sure (given that it is plastic sitting on the ground) that you have it off the ground to allow the water to exit the pot and flow away. If you leave it on the ground put it up on a couple of bricks or something. Your soil mix looks a little suspect - you want a free-draining mix that has low organic content. It almost looks like you have your tree planted in 100% perlite(?) with rocks stacked on top to keep the perlite from flowing/blowing away? I use perlite for cuttings and that's about it = I use regular bonsai mix for yamadori. Maybe it is just a bad photo and that is really pumice

Second, indirect bright daylight is what you want. I'm not sure a screened patio is bright enough, but I don't know your setup. You want to set up your tree, put it under a humidity tent, and not mess with it at all. You can open the humidity tent to mist it, but that's it. Keep the humidity tent over it 24/7. Don't move it, don't prune it, don't defoliate it, don't do anything until it has been there 90 days, and/or is showing STRONG growth (not just a few buds popping). Your humidity tent plastic looks black(?) - you want translucent plastic that lets light through because otherwise your tree will be in a cave which is not what we want.

Third, no fertilizer of any type until it shows strong growth. Definitely no flood lights or artificial lighting. No heating pad.

Yes the container looks terrible but it's got holes galore (like 30 holes at least) and no the soil only looks funny because I'd used lava rocks as mulch, the remainder is perlite except the very bottom, I always put down a ~1-rock-deep layer of medium lava rocks at the base of all containers, to prevent perlite or DE from clogging drainage holes. I like lava rock mulch, it lets me see soil-moisture very well (picking up a half-sunken lava rock tells you exactly where the moisture is) and dissuades cats from thinking DE or perlite boxes are litter boxes!! Most/all of my specimen have some type of rock mulching, some have sphagnum-moss (long-strand/tan) top-dressing but even that'd be pinned in-place with rocks.

I never setup a humidity tent, hope that's not all she wrote for this guy...I imagine it'd drop its leaves if it was fully dead though, am going to hold onto it for a bit regardless just in-case as I've had a few surprise 'oh that's alive!' episodes with other specimen before!

 

[SU2]

As a general rule, most every broadleaf tree will do best if defoliated upon collection. All cuts > 1/4" should be sealed. The tree will usually have minimal roots, no feeders, and therefore leaving foliage on does little more than suck moisture out of the trunk and root base that has no way to replace it. Shuffling it from outside to inside and back again is not going to help anything. Leave it outside, assuming it's been defoliated; otherwise, you're more or less on your own and in my opinion your odds of success go way down.

It's clear from your post that you are really loving on this tree. All that attention will do no good, and most likely will cause harm. Keep the tree watered and in semi-shade, but otherwise ignore it. You'll see new foliar growth within a couple of weeks, and you won't see new roots growing until they appear at the drain holes. Feed whenever the buds start pushing, keep on watering, but otherwise ignore the tree. You'll be glad you did.

Good luck!

Zach

Great post, thank you!

"As a general rule, most every broadleaf tree will do best if defoliated upon collection. "

I was literally told this is a terrible idea in another thread (and though nobody disagreed with them there, the consensus online I've seen seems to be that you *do* defoliate to some degree when collecting, and my personal experiences certainly corroborate that and I get all of my trees through collecting)

Have been doing well ignoring it, it's setup in a spot where it's kind of under the eave of my house on the top of shelves, so it gets some light morning sun but is quickly cut-off by a tree and then the roof's eave for the rest of the day, it gets minimal wind there and I walk past it every time I enter the backyard, so never forget to water it though it's so high I can't really see/appreciate it, has made it 'out of mind' and have just been focusing on the nursery re-build (we got hit by Irma hard here, I now have a whole new nursery to setup in its wake!)

 

[Zach Smith]

Great post, thank you!

"As a general rule, most every broadleaf tree will do best if defoliated upon collection. "

I was literally told this is a terrible idea in another thread (and though nobody disagreed with them there, the consensus online I've seen seems to be that you *do* defoliate to some degree when collecting, and my personal experiences certainly corroborate that and I get all of my trees through collecting)

Have been doing well ignoring it, it's setup in a spot where it's kind of under the eave of my house on the top of shelves, so it gets some light morning sun but is quickly cut-off by a tree and then the roof's eave for the rest of the day, it gets minimal wind there and I walk past it every time I enter the backyard, so never forget to water it though it's so high I can't really see/appreciate it, has made it 'out of mind' and have just been focusing on the nursery re-build (we got hit by Irma hard here, I now have a whole new nursery to setup in its wake!)

That's the way to go. Once you gets lots of trees it gets harder to dote on any one, so they tend to do much better overall.

 

[SU2]

That's the way to go. Once you gets lots of trees it gets harder to dote on any one, so they tend to do much better overall.

There's certainly a good balance that needs to be struck, if you're spending lots of time on too-few trees then it's probably to their detriment, of course on the other hand I've had times where I had too-many things going at once and haven't gotten to wiring things when I should've, so I've been trying my best to find good balance! Having everything setup well has been very useful here, like having containers / substrates ready-to-go at all times, having the nursery organized, having a nursery to-do list that I see every time I go to my garden, etc etc!