Bougainvillea chop advice

kingtopher

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Hi all. I posted this in the beginners forum but didn’t get any action there so I thought I’d try here in case bougainvillea isn’t something a lot of people do.

I have been interested in bonsai for a while, and have played with some jades a little, but I just decided to take the plunge and bought a couple of bougainvilleas to mess around with and learn on. I’m in San Diego and grow some in pots already and they’re almost impossible to kill and grow like crazy even with neglect, so they seemed like a good choice. If I had to guess I’d say they’re both maybe 3 gallon pots.

I’m attaching some photos and would love any advice about chopping them back for the first time. I marked my rough plan with red but would welcome any advice. I’ll make a reply with the second plant in it. Thanks so much!
 

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kingtopher

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Sorry, double posted and I can’t figure out how to delete this one!
 

kingtopher

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Here’s the second one and what I think seems like a good front. This one isn’t as obvious about what I should do.
 

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Forsoothe!

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You need to add some goals. What size do you want to have? Cutting way back will need to have comparable root cut backs or you'll get wild re-growth. You can see that they sprout in all sorts of directions. They will do that again. It would be nice if they would grow from the ends of your cut branches, but they are more likely to not do that and bud from everywhere else. If you only cut back to a bud, or better to a cluster of buds you will have a better chance of getting other clusters of growth from those existing clusters and better, more natural places. So, cut back now half of what you'd like and hope for more inner growth occurring where you'd like to cut back to. Or, if the present buds/clusters are too far out for you now, then something like this which leaves you with 16 stubs (places to get lucky) rather than your 5 places...
bg 0.JPG
 

kingtopher

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Thank you for the advice. I will definitely not cut the branches back as far as I’d like them to eventually end up. That’s a tip I hadn’t found before, so I appreciate it. If there are branches that I’m pretty sure I don’t want at all, is there any value in keeping them for now or am I safe to remove those?

Also if my goal is to just get it back budding as much as possible to choose the best branches to develop, I should probably just leave it with a lot of roots for a while and just let it grow like crazy, right?
 

kingtopher

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I like your print up on the other page....

Welcome to Crazy!

Except...
View attachment 390887

Sorce

Thank you. Would you be able to explain your changes here? Would that be to allow new branches to form at those spots with better taper, or to just remove them completely?
 

kingtopher

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Yep.
that’s what I would do as long as they aren’t pot bound with lots of circling roots.
let the roots alone for another year and let the trunk back bud to give you choices in the future.

Fantastic, thank you for taking the time to help.
 

Forsoothe!

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Yes, remove entirely any branch that interferes with branches you want to nurture.
 

sorce

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Thank you. Would you be able to explain your changes here? Would that be to allow new branches to form at those spots with better taper, or to just remove them completely?

Leaving the lowest branch alone to continue to thicken the low base is most important.
Then removing the next 2 lessens and begins to fix the reverse taper in that area.
The top one can be pondered for a while.

It's most important to Keep Potential Problems at bay. PPB! (Courtesy of @garywood )

Just doing this usually gives you "backbudding'.

Seeking "backbudding" is foolish 99% of the time, I completely hate the concept. Usually, like here, seeking backbudding leads us to leave other problems, that backbuds then aid to make worse.

If you never worry about "backbudding" again....
You will become successful.

Sorce
 

kingtopher

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Leaving the lowest branch alone to continue to thicken the low base is most important.
Then removing the next 2 lessens and begins to fix the reverse taper in that area.
The top one can be pondered for a while.

It's most important to Keep Potential Problems at bay. PPB! (Courtesy of @garywood )

Just doing this usually gives you "backbudding'.

Seeking "backbudding" is foolish 99% of the time, I completely hate the concept. Usually, like here, seeking backbudding leads us to leave other problems, that backbuds then aid to make worse.

If you never worry about "backbudding" again....
You will become successful.

Sorce

Thank you!
 
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If you want to keep it around the size shown, here is my idea. (Red = cut, Green = keep)

4A7DBBA5-BF9E-4F69-B773-55CBBCFAB800.jpeg

And here is my reasoning. As @sorce pointed out, the lower branch will (sort of, over years) help you build more wood at the base. The thick left branch is way too thick, straight and awkward to be usable. The smaller branch below is not at an ideal angle, but it at least has movement and is the correct size. The second right branch (really a whorl of branches) needs to be narrowed down to one small branch. The others are too heavy. Same with the second left branch. I put a green dot on a thin branch that may be useful, but probably needs to be wired in a more upward direction. The very top red mark is the highest you should start your apex for a tree this size.

Having said all of this, I really think that a standard bougainvillea will be difficult to develop into a good shohin. I don't know where you are located, but you might consider planting it in a larger container for a while in very free-draining soil. It is a great trunk, but needs to be significantly bigger to compete with the large leaves and bracts.
 
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