Bought a Hinoki cypress.. now what?

[Shun]

Hey guys I went to a garden nursery and found some Hinoki cypress at 7USD each so I took one home.

My plan was to clean the tree to find its base then I noticed it was quite loose on the NASTY clay soil it was in and with a little nudge the tree came out bare rooted in my hands.. I froze a bit for two reasons.. first: the tree had almost no roots and a ugly ass nebari... second: we are in the middle of fall, almost winter and temps are getting bellow 10C daily... I only kept going forward because it was 7 USD so what the heck!

So I did my best to clean out the clay ou of the poor root system and planted it in bonsai soil..

The tree is currently at 1,5 inch trunk / 2,5 inch base / 23 inches tall (i removed the top to reduce the foliar mass, but I think I will need to thin it out a bit more)

My question is.. where can I find good sources on how to care and develop this species? My first hinoki..! Looked for some youtube videos but mostly were about styling or demos.. bonsai4me website had little info on them, also

Here are the pics!






My plan is to leave it alone for a year and if it survives try to give it a first styling.. more like a structural wiring and pruning back to compact the foliage! I've read these things dont backbud so I have to preserve the inner foliage I have

Any tips on how to care / develop this material?

Thanks guys!

 

[Smoke]

FIRST RULE OF BONSAI:
....BUY NOTHING UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO WITH IT!

Caps for a reason.....

 

[sorce]

Unless it's $7.

Sorce

 

[Tbwilson33]

Unless it's $7.

Sorce

If I could like this 100 times I would

 

[MattE]

Pfft buy everything and anything its your money and only experienced gained even with a loss or 50..

 

[augustine]

It needs to be wired in the pot securely so the new roots are not damaged . Don’t do anything until the next growing season, not the one coming up, the one after that. Fertilize and give it good care so roots will grow.

Nice tree. Read up, this species has to be pinched to retain foliage close to trunk. I don’t compromise a tree whether it cost $7 or $300.

Join a club if possible or find a mentor. Good luck

 

[Smoke]

Unless it's $7.

Sorce

You have the balls to put this in your signature...what a hypocrite

"The energy could be spent on discussing how to make more artistic bonsai." -W.Pall

If your thread starts with:

Bought a Hinoki cypress.. now what?


I don't really care if someone gave it to you, it still becomes firewood and that's not very nature minded. The problem with all of the people that play with 7 dollar material is that in the end they have a yard full of 7 dollar material. They don't have the chops to make something out of it. If somehow in your brain you feel that buying cheap crappy material for the sake of fucking up 50 pieces of crap is somehow going to make you a better artist, then it would explain the reason you have been here for a decade and still have nothing remotely finished to show for it.

Take a lesson or two, buy some 200.00 dollar material to work on, do dome workshops, whatever it takes, but frankly your post was just "bonsai ignorant".

The most intelligent thing you could have said was; "Hinoki cypress is one of the most difficult bonsai species to start with. There are things that must be done that even masters have a hard time with. They are very climate sensitive, as well as yard sensitive. They have to have the perfect spot in the yard to thrive and that's providing you even live in the climate they thrive in. They don't back bud very well and are extremely sensitive to foliage mass. Cut too much off, and poof dead branch. Thinning must be done at the correct time of year and the correct foliage must be removed. They have very specific fertilizer needs and soil needs. Just not a very good beginners species, at any price"

Here are three root cuttings I took last year of some elms. Not a big deal. Just roots. But this past February I twisted them all up. I planted them out in their own pots and will work them this year and next year plant them in a cut down 10. Let them run and bulk up with all the twists and turns. So far I have about 15 months in these. Hardly anything. Something even you could do if you tried. Now this is a good beginner project.

Learning;
Propagating
Transplanting
Wiring
Trunk Movement
Branch Selection
Pruning
Potting Up
Artistry

And anyone that thinks the twisting part is easy has a real learning experience ahead of them. It is not as easy as it appears. It will be worth it though even if not perfect, the years will add patina and that is a good thing.


February


Today

 

[Shun]

FIRST RULE OF BONSAI:
....BUY NOTHING UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO WITH IT!

Caps for a reason.....

Great advise on the tree and species! Thanks

 

[Shun]

It needs to be wired in the pot securely so the new roots are not damaged . Don’t do anything until the next growing season, not the one coming up, the one after that. Fertilize and give it good care so roots will grow.

Nice tree. Read up, this species has to be pinched to retain foliage close to trunk. I don’t compromise a tree whether it cost $7 or $300.

Join a club if possible or find a mentor. Good luck

Yes! The tree is tightly secured in the pot!
The plan is exactly that! To think about working on it again only next year.. provided ir survives and shows signs of healthy growth!

Thanks, man! I'm trying to hoard the information I can get on the species.. been looking for my usual sources.. bonsaitonight from Jonas Dupuich, bonsai4me, youtube (the Bjorn Bjorholm bonsai series has a thing or two on the species) etc..!

I'm already associated in the local club and made some "bonsai friends" but you guys seem to know a thing or two more on the species than us down here so I figured i'd share it here also!

 

[WNC Bonsai]

The advice I found from a bonsai master was to mist it several times daily until it grows new roots and stabilizes. Usually in the sprnig that means until you see new light green tips on the pads. That might mean 4-6 weeks in the best of circumstances. I did one a little over a month ago and it put out new gowth in 3-4 weeks, but it is spring here and it had alot more roots to start with. In your case how cold does it get there in winter? You may still be able to get it to put out new roots but it will be close at best.

 

[sorce]

"Hinoki cypress is one of the most difficult bonsai species to start with. There are things that must be done that even masters have a hard time with. They are very climate sensitive, as well as yard sensitive. They have to have the perfect spot in the yard to thrive and that's providing you even live in the climate they thrive in. They don't back bud very well and are extremely sensitive to foliage mass. Cut too much off, and poof dead branch. Thinning must be done at the correct time of year and the correct foliage must be removed. They have very specific fertilizer needs and soil needs. Just not a very good beginners species, at any price"

That is the most intelligent thing you could have said, but you didn't until I said the most intelligent thing I had to say, which made you actually help young Shun.

Your Tiem Sucks.

Mine Wins.

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

I'm trying to hoard the information I can get on the species..youtube (the Bjorn Bjorholm bonsai series has a thing or two on the species) etc..

If you're hoarding and youtube visits have got you to this video...

...then you know it's just styling, but precise really. I watch it every time before I thin on mine.

@Vance Wood is a reliable source for proven efforts with the species.
They like their soil a little more moist than say JBP, and more consistent IME. So a deep pot can work against the consistency to a point.

They will balk at drying winds

The advice I found from a bonsai master was to mist it several times daily ...
...and it had alot more roots to start with. In your case how cold does it get there in winter?
You may still be able to get it to put out new roots but it will be close at best.

If the soil dries out you'll get dead foliage as pictured below even with a well developed root structure, and true they are NOT a back budder. That's the main difficulties I find with hinoki, but...
...your USDA grow zone is missing from your profile, which is why Cofga asked how cold it gets there.
Winter may bring an ugly factor to the foliage and should even be expected, and this means nothing bad of itself, but they can dry in Winter too, not good, displaying similar characteristics
between Winter foliage and dry foliage at 1st. Just need to be aware of moisture no matter the season.
EDIT...

July 26 2018

The one on the left here will never be a bonsai I doubt save for layering maybe, but shows what will occur when the soil is not adequately cared for.
Roots are getting bound up and difficult to properly water in such a pot, thus the worry I asked Vance about when I thought it had root rot.
The top of the soil was getting loads of water, the bottom was not. I lifted it and found he was right, the lower mass was not consistent with the upper portion.
Sure that can happen with any tree root bound, but the point is visually you know what to look for and correct. As Vance would tell you, if they're selling them in local
nurseries, then probably good to go, but do research.

Aug 12 2018



Today May 25 2019

I had this thinned out comfortably but Spring and feed has it bulked back up to the point I will have to thin again before I wire it.
I left the straight upper branches straight last year when I wired it some considering a reduction. Still considering but will wire them as well this year.
Tree needs some girth and I love the flaky delicate bark if it doesn't get moss growing on it.
...end of EDIT

That appears to be one helluva root reduction unless the 2D pic hides a second root mass attached to a longer tap root we can't see.

 

[Shun]

If you're hoarding and youtube visits have got you to this video...

...then you know it's just styling, but precise really. I watch it every time before I thin on mine.

@Vance Wood is a reliable source for proven efforts with the species.
They like their soil a little more moist than say JBP, and more consistent IME. So a deep pot can work against the consistency to a point.

They will balk at drying winds


If the soil dries out you'll get dead foliage as pictured below even with a well developed root structure, and true they are NOT a back budder. That's the main difficulties I find with hinoki, but...
...your USDA grow zone is missing from your profile, which is why Cofga asked how cold it gets there.
Winter may bring an ugly factor to the foliage and should even be expected, and this means nothing bad of itself, but they can dry in Winter too, not good, displaying similar characteristics
between Winter foliage and dry foliage at 1st. Just need to be aware of moisture no matter the season.
EDIT...
View attachment 243937
July 26 2018

The one on the left here will never be a bonsai I doubt save for layering maybe, but shows what will occur when the soil is not adequately cared for.
Roots are getting bound up and difficult to properly water in such a pot, thus the worry I asked Vance about when I thought it had root rot.
The top of the soil was getting loads of water, the bottom was not. I lifted it and found he was right, the lower mass was not consistent with the upper portion.
Sure that can happen with any tree root bound, but the point is visually you know what to look for and correct. As Vance would tell you, if they're selling them in local
nurseries, then probably good to go, but do research.
View attachment 243938 View attachment 243939 View attachment 243940
Aug 12 2018


View attachment 243941
Today May 25 2019

I had this thinned out comfortably but Spring and feed has it bulked back up to the point I will have to thin again before I wire it.
I left the straight upper branches straight last year when I wired it some considering a reduction. Still considering but will wire them as well this year.
Tree needs some girth and I love the flaky delicate bark if it doesn't get moss growing on it.
...end of EDIT

That appears to be one helluva root reduction unless the 2D pic hides a second root mass attached to a longer tap root we can't see.

Thats some great advise! Thanks a lot! I've seen that Kimura forest and its quite something to contemplate. Episode 4 of "bonsai art in japan" from Bjorn also features two hinokis with tips on summer maintenance / pad development on them.. imspirational! I love the foliage on these!

Where I live we get winter with around 0 to 10 degrees Celsius.. only a few days of 0C... most days start at about 10C to 15~18C.. USDA grow zones doesnt apply to brazil, or the southern hemisphere i guess..! But I live in Curitiba - Paraná.. if you google it you will find the coordinates.. pretty city!

I'm sure we can grow these species because i've seen some landscape hinokis around here and the one I bought is locally produced.. Also, I dont see it as a firewood or crap shit as stated above.. the design is clear in my head.. I just wanna learn more from the species and its nuances from people who tried the species before or have them on its collection.

 

[Shun]

Talking to a friend who has a cascading hinoki cypress (down here we call them "nana" or "thuia nana" - we know its not a thuia) he also told me they like more organic substrate and water than your average conifer! Will have to change the soil composition when and if repotting time comes!

The advice I found from a bonsai master was to mist it several times daily until it grows new roots and stabilizes. Usually in the sprnig that means until you see new light green tips on the pads. That might mean 4-6 weeks in the best of circumstances. I did one a little over a month ago and it put out new gowth in 3-4 weeks, but it is spring here and it had alot more roots to start with. In your case how cold does it get there in winter? You may still be able to get it to put out new roots but it will be close at best.

Thanks! Will keep misting the foliage as much as I can get to it.. weekly misting with superthrive also

Weather forecast is predicting a "warm" spell this coming week.. maybe I got lucky? Lets hope so!

Thanks for your comment!

 

[Japonicus]

Hey guys I went to a garden nursery and found some Hinoki cypress at 7USD each so I took one home.!

Well go get a few more. At least one, but MORE.
Reducing the roots that much expect heavy shedding if not
(In a pleasant tone) firewood. In fact I would reduce half the foliage to reduce demands (loppers half way down)
and still expect a lot of shedding. The taper needs a reduction anyway, but something we would do
once the tree has recovered another year. However it appears you’ve carried out quite the insult.
I normally keep foliage at repot time as you’ve done here, but the lack of water available to keep the foliage alive
is now in jeopardy with such few roots. Go buy another one and work on the foliage and reduction 1st
then when it’s recovered next year, cut half the root ball off laterally and comb out the roots that are left.

 

[Shun]

I dont have room for more than one, unfortunatelly! But i havent cut through any roots.. that amount on the pic was it! The rest of the pot was only thick compacted mud..no roots were growing into it.
if anything i've "slip potted" the tree into better substrate, i guess! Hahahaha

But I agree. I do expect some shedding! And perhaps firewood! But I've faith that this one will survive.. I'll have to keep on top of it regarding post transplant care.. regular misting on the foliage and etc.

Thanks @Japonicus !!

 

[Japonicus]

Keep the good faith! My apologies for skipping over the frozen moments in your post. My bad

 

[Forsoothe!]

The first order of business when you discover a plant with serious problems is to keep it alive. Put it in the ground, or second best, sink the pot in the ground for as long as it takes to look decidedly better. That will keep the roots the right temperatures and steady the cycle of wet/dry to ~normal. Of course, if you don't have the land...

 

[Shun]

No land, sir.. i live in a condo! Hahahahaha

 

[John P.]

Curious how this goes. Just bought this guy (the one in the middle) yesterday ... for landscape, though.