Box Store Wound Dressing/Seal

[sikadelic]

Hey guys. Do I need to order a specialty seal or can I use the general stuff at Lowe's? I am planning on doing some threadgrafting and root work on a maple when I repot it in a few weeks. I need it to be removable so I can also use it for treating chop wounds but it looks like the reviews from the box store mention how hard it is to take off.

Thanks.

 

[Paradox]

Stupid question, but why would you want to remove it? We usually leave it on until the would heals and it pops off.

I dont like the black stuff you get at Lowes and Home Depot. You wont be able to remove it.

I have used this grafting wax for big cuts which works pretty well IMO and is cheaper than stuff you guy from Bonsai supply places

http://www.amazon.com/Walter-E-Clar...8&qid=1391492884&sr=8-1&keywords=grafting+wax

Its a tanish color instead of black. It is very sticky and can be a bit messy but they all are really.
With this you have to coat your hands in vegetable oil (I use canola because thats what I have) to keep it from sticking to my hands. You put a small piece in warm water and it softens it and allows you to work with it.

 

[aphid]

I have been using this. I have been using same tube forever. I probably got it in like 2000? It hasn't run out yet.. LOL It's gray and very easy to apply. You don't have to remove it because the tree will just push it off as it's callousing.

http://www.maibanbonsai.com/shin-kiyonalgraftingaidbonsaitreecutsealant-medicated.aspx

 

[Neli]

I saw a chinese guy using silicon glue, but never tried it. A friend of mine uses large lump of clay/plasticine and it heals his large chops very fast.

 

[bonsaibp]

Elmers wood glue.

 

[GrimLore]

Elmers wood glue.

That

Grimmy

 

[GO-OK]

I also use the toothpaste tube like stuff from Japan. This year I tried something new and placed a square of aluminum foil over it and pressed it to remove bubbles and ensure contact. That wound healed noticabley faster that the others...on the same species of similar size wound.
One thing that was clear was that the calus tissue stayed very very flat as it covered the wound.....as opposed to bubbling up and becoming thicker. Maybe to slight pressure of the foil and airtight seal caused the calus to spread and not raise.

I'll try again this year to confirm.

 

[Cmanz]

I use a modeling clay called Plastalina available from Michaels. I like the brown and gray blended to match the bark of whatever tree I'm working on. I also like to mix in a few drops of mineral oil just to make it stickyer.

 

[GO-OK]

Great idea on the plasticine.

 

[GrimLore]

If you use Elmers you can use cut offs and match it exact with existing unused bark...

Grimmy

 

[sikadelic]

Stupid question, but why would you want to remove it?

I'm still quite green and was under the assumption that you had to remove it to rewound and cover again repeatedly.

Elmers wood glue.

Will it just pop off on its own? I have some titebond wood glue that I could use if it's the same.

I use a modeling clay called Plastalina available from Michaels. I like the brown and gray blended to match the bark of whatever tree I'm working on. I also like to mix in a few drops of mineral oil just to make it stickyer.

I also have some modeling clay but it's not plastalina. My brand is Model Air and it's just the general stuff.

 

[GrimLore]

Titebond is not the same as Elmers wood glue. If I remember correct Titebond is waterproof so I am not sure how it would act. The Elmers does come off of mine when I use it but the times and uses varies so much I really can't give you longevity. Just know it is cheap, easy, and works. I have the black stuff and use it on landscape plants. It will eventually lighten in color but that takes a few seasons here and I have never seen it come off. It seems to be more of a stain/sealer then a coating.

Grimmy

 

[Poink88]

Stupid question, but why would you want to remove it? We usually leave it on until the would heals and it pops off.

Wound sealant seem to have different use and followers. There are also those who doesn't believe in it (even masters). Dan Robinson for one thinks it just holds moisture in and encourage wood decay inside.

In my understanding...
The thick clay or caulk like sealants are used to cover the wound and supposedly encourage the callus to roll over faster (under the clay and caulk). They should pop off.

The thin sealants like wood glue really act as wood sealant (gets absorbed by wood leaving a thin film finish). It minimizes; wood drying, cracking, and water entry to prevent rot so the callus have something to roll over to.

I make mine to just prevent (sap flow) drying from the wound and hope for it to work only for a few hours until the tree "compartmentalize" the cut. For large cuts, I use wood glue on the wood just to stabilize or "harden" it since it will take time before the wound heals.

Hope this helps and if I am mistaken...please feel free to correct me.

 

[sikadelic]

I might try the modeling clay to see how it works out.

I also like the idea of the Elmers Wood Glue but in my mind, I am seeing it dry hard and be difficult to rewound the underlying callus later down the road. Again, I have never used it and see that many of you have so I probably need to give it a try so I can understand it a little better.

 

[GrimLore]

I might try the modeling clay to see how it works out.

I also like the idea of the Elmers Wood Glue but in my mind, I am seeing it dry hard and be difficult to rewound the underlying callus later down the road. Again, I have never used it and see that many of you have so I probably need to give it a try so I can understand it a little better.

Experiment with several products on a Landscape tree...

Grimmy

 

[Poink88]

I might try the modeling clay to see how it works out.

I also like the idea of the Elmers Wood Glue but in my mind, I am seeing it dry hard and be difficult to rewound the underlying callus later down the road. Again, I have never used it and see that many of you have so I probably need to give it a try so I can understand it a little better.

Elmer's glue will stick to the wood and the callus will go over them both (as one). Read and understand what I posted above. I edited it for you.

 

[GO-OK]

Wound sealing is not a new thing and generally has been proven to work for most species.....many years of old fashioned trial and error there. Most cut pastes made for bonsai are readily available and cheap. They also last quite a long time for people with average sized collections. So..just as a general question why not just get one of those products? Why the need to dive into so much minutia over what is likely a similar cost and maybe just as effective....maybe but probably not. My money is on the brand x bonsai paste.

Not sure I agree on the no cut paste thing, but to each his own. Based on what I see in Dans excellent and very artistic work, he may not be concerned with a smooth callus. Just my two cents.

 

[prestontolbert]

A prominent bonsai nurseryman told me he uses Titebond II. Titebond I is too permeable and III is too waterproof.

Edit:That is on trident maples.

 

[Poink88]

Not sure I agree on the no cut paste thing, but to each his own. Based on what I see in Dans excellent and very artistic work, he may not be concerned with a smooth callus. Just my two cents.

I use and believe in cut paste myself.

Dan actually told several stories that due to cut paste use, the tree usually rot from the inside...continuously even after the wound has healed. Kathy Shaner uses it but checks the wood before it fully heals and make sure the wood is solid. If not, she removes all rotting/soft wood, treat it with hardener and then fill the hole with putty.

Dan undoubtedly is a carving proponent but it is not the reason he cited. If anything, while carving is when he encountered the problems he shared. He even joked about taking it back...since they help create great URO. LOL

 

[sikadelic]

Elmer's glue will stick to the wood and the callus will go over them both (as one). Read and understand what I posted above. I edited it for you.

That makes much more sense to me now. Thanks for sharing that.

Why the need to dive into so much minutia over what is likely a similar cost and maybe just as effective....maybe but probably not. My money is on the brand x bonsai paste.

To be honest, it's all about saving a buck where I can. I'm willing to spend the extra coin when it's needed, but if I can get by with cheaper, why not? I definitely agree that the tried and true products are the most reliable and will be ordering the Joshua Roth tube somebody was kind enough to share. I just like to get others input too because there's a lot of experience on this board.

A prominent bonsai nurseryman told me he uses Titebond II. Titebond I is too permeable and III is too waterproof.

Edit:That is on trident maples.

Coincidentally enough, that is exactly what I have. I will try all 3 (Roth tube paste, Elmer's, and Titebond at some point and see what works best.

Thanks for all the input guys!