Boy was this little Trident tricky to wire!

sorce

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Don't remember seeing this one.

Nice.

Sorce
 

markyscott

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Nice tree. Now that you've wired it, how will you do the fall cut back? Also, a lot of that wire is wrapped around old lignified branches - it looks awfully small to reposition them to me. We're you able to bend or reposition those branches with the wire you applied?

Scott
 

abqjoe

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Nice tree. Now that you've wired it, how will you do the fall cut back? Also, a lot of that wire is wrapped around old lignified branches - it looks awfully small to reposition them to me. We're you able to bend or reposition those branches with the wire you applied?

Scott

Yes. I only needed the a couple of the older branches to move a little bit so that I could spread everything out to create space for Springs growth. I'll see where the tree is at come next Fall and take it from there as far as cut back goes. In person this tree is not quite as dense as it appears to be in the pics. It's dense, but no AS dense as in the pics.
 

JudyB

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Hey at least you got in there. The best way to learn wiring is to do a lot of it. Practice as much as you can on anything you can. Anchoring is really important.
 

abqjoe

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Hey at least you got in there. The best way to learn wiring is to do a lot of it. Practice as much as you can on anything you can. Anchoring is really important.

Thanks! Being that I jumped into Bonsai so heavily in my first year I have lot's of tree's to practice on:)
 

Adair M

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Nice tree. Now that you've wired it, how will you do the fall cut back? Also, a lot of that wire is wrapped around old lignified branches - it looks awfully small to reposition them to me. We're you able to bend or reposition those branches with the wire you applied?

Scott
Implied in MarkyScott's question is the fact you need to do a fall cut back. Shorten those vertical growing leaders. Remove twigs that are growing back towards the center. There appear to be many places where three branches grow from one node. These should be reduced to two at a node. Things like that.
 

abqjoe

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Implied in MarkyScott's question is the fact you need to do a fall cut back. Shorten those vertical growing leaders. Remove twigs that are growing back towards the center. There appear to be many places where three branches grow from one node. These should be reduced to two at a node. Things like that.

Gotcha thanks!
 

Adair M

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Joe, it looks like you're changing the front. Do you mind showing a picture of the original front?

(Using the first picture as a reference, I believe the original front would have the chopstick on the left).
 

markyscott

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Implied in MarkyScott's question is the fact you need to do a fall cut back. Shorten those vertical growing leaders. Remove twigs that are growing back towards the center. There appear to be many places where three branches grow from one node. These should be reduced to two at a node. Things like that.

That's it, but I'll take the comment a bit further, if I may. I think that often people see folks bending big branches on conifers and think that's how it's done on deciduous trees. Heck, I've bent branches as large as my arm on pine trees myself. But deciduous trees are different - branches are grown into place, not bent into place. So the fall cut back is extremely important on deciduous trees. It's a big component of how branch structure is developed on deciduous trees. So cut the heavy branches back to the fine growth and then just wire the stuff thinner than a matchstick, if it needs to be repositioned. Forget about the wire on the thick branches - you're not bending them without breaking them anyway. They don't call them hardwoods for nothing. At the same time, do all the maintenance pruning:
  • Prune growth coming out of the bottom of the branches
  • Prune growth directed toward the interior of the tree
  • Thin branches junctions with multiple shoots and buds down to two branches, preferably horizontal ones.
  • For every 2-3 horizontal branches, keep an upward facing shoot
  • For each branch, think about the structure - for apically dominant trees, there should be a leader and secondary branches that emerge in an alternating pattern. So leave your leader a little long and prune the side branches back a little harder
Lot's of people wire deciduous trees during dormancy. I tend not to, but if you do, watch out for the wire cutting in. The branches won't set until the tree starts to grow. It grows fast in early spring so that wire might need to come off 2-4 weeks into the growing season. Keep a very close eye on it.

The other thing to watch in early spring is that the foliage can become quite dense, especially if you're pinching the spring shoots (it looks like this tree is pinched). So you'll need to thin the outer canopy - perhaps you'll need to do a partial outer canopy defoliation. The goal is to allow light and air into the interior of the tree. To see how to do this, I'd recommend you sign up for Bjorn's online intermediate course on Bonsai Empire. It goes into all of this in quite a lot of detail.

Most of all have fun. This is a nice tree and tridents will keep you busy. I like that you got in there and wired it - the practice will pay off down the line. Consider taking Colin's wiring class on Craftsy - it's free and an excellent instructional video. Pay particular attention to the parts about anchoring and how to wire two branches with a single piece of wire. And also the parts about the relative stength of two smaller pieces of wire as compared to a single large piece. Actually, it's all good. When you're done, critically evaluate your own wiring and learn from the differences.

Scott
 

markyscott

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Somewhere there is an episode on fall cut back as well, but I'll be darned if I can find it. Maybe it was in the Bonsai Empire course? I think that Fujikawa-san was working on a maple - I remember it being a Japanese maple and I think that Owen might have been featured. They did the fall cut back and some light wiring of the finer branches. Anyone recall which episode that was?

Scott
 

abqjoe

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Joe, it looks like you're changing the front. Do you mind showing a picture of the original front?

(Using the first picture as a reference, I believe the original front would have the chopstick on the left).

Actually the front is the same I just took pics at different angles. I'll post up a short video of it after work though! I think a video will show this tree more accurately....
 

Giga

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thats a nice little tree, Though I do prefer a dominate trunk and I don't see one- very nice either way!
 

abqjoe

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That's it, but I'll take the comment a bit further, if I may. I think that often people see folks bending big branches on conifers and think that's how it's done on deciduous trees. Heck, I've bent branches as large as my arm on pine trees myself. But deciduous trees are different - branches are grown into place, not bent into place. So the fall cut back is extremely important on deciduous trees. It's a big component of how branch structure is developed on deciduous trees. So cut the heavy branches back to the fine growth and then just wire the stuff thinner than a matchstick, if it needs to be repositioned. Forget about the wire on the thick branches - you're not bending them without breaking them anyway. They don't call them hardwoods for nothing. At the same time, do all the maintenance pruning:
  • Prune growth coming out of the bottom of the branches
  • Prune growth directed toward the interior of the tree
  • Thin branches junctions with multiple shoots and buds down to two branches, preferably horizontal ones.
  • For every 2-3 horizontal branches, keep an upward facing shoot
  • For each branch, think about the structure - for apically dominant trees, there should be a leader and secondary branches that emerge in an alternating pattern. So leave your leader a little long and prune the side branches back a little harder
Lot's of people wire deciduous trees during dormancy. I tend not to, but if you do, watch out for the wire cutting in. The branches won't set until the tree starts to grow. It grows fast in early spring so that wire might need to come off 2-4 weeks into the growing season. Keep a very close eye on it.

The other thing to watch in early spring is that the foliage can become quite dense, especially if you're pinching the spring shoots (it looks like this tree is pinched). So you'll need to thin the outer canopy - perhaps you'll need to do a partial outer canopy defoliation. The goal is to allow light and air into the interior of the tree. To see how to do this, I'd recommend you sign up for Bjorn's online intermediate course on Bonsai Empire. It goes into all of this in quite a lot of detail.

Most of all have fun. This is a nice tree and tridents will keep you busy. I like that you got in there and wired it - the practice will pay off down the line. Consider taking Colin's wiring class on Craftsy - it's free and an excellent instructional video. Pay particular attention to the parts about anchoring and how to wire two branches with a single piece of wire. And also the parts about the relative stength of two smaller pieces of wire as compared to a single large piece. Actually, it's all good. When you're done, critically evaluate your own wiring and learn from the differences.

Scott

Thank you for all of your help and advice. I did watch that wiring video on Craftsy and tried my best to apply the slingshot technique to this tree but because of it's structure it was very tricky:)
 

markyscott

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Thank you for all of your help and advice. I did watch that wiring video on Craftsy and tried my best to apply the slingshot technique to this tree but because of it's structure it was very tricky:)

It'll get easier with time and practice. It's just one of those things that is learned through doing rather than theory. Jonas just put out another resource that you might find informative.

https://bonsaitonight.com/2017/01/03/tips-anchoring-bonsai-wire/

Scott
 

Adair M

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That's it, but I'll take the comment a bit further, if I may. I think that often people see folks bending big branches on conifers and think that's how it's done on deciduous trees. Heck, I've bent branches as large as my arm on pine trees myself. But deciduous trees are different - branches are grown into place, not bent into place. So the fall cut back is extremely important on deciduous trees. It's a big component of how branch structure is developed on deciduous trees. So cut the heavy branches back to the fine growth and then just wire the stuff thinner than a matchstick, if it needs to be repositioned. Forget about the wire on the thick branches - you're not bending them without breaking them anyway. They don't call them hardwoods for nothing. At the same time, do all the maintenance pruning:
  • Prune growth coming out of the bottom of the branches
  • Prune growth directed toward the interior of the tree
  • Thin branches junctions with multiple shoots and buds down to two branches, preferably horizontal ones.
  • For every 2-3 horizontal branches, keep an upward facing shoot
  • For each branch, think about the structure - for apically dominant trees, there should be a leader and secondary branches that emerge in an alternating pattern. So leave your leader a little long and prune the side branches back a little harder
Lot's of people wire deciduous trees during dormancy. I tend not to, but if you do, watch out for the wire cutting in. The branches won't set until the tree starts to grow. It grows fast in early spring so that wire might need to come off 2-4 weeks into the growing season. Keep a very close eye on it.

The other thing to watch in early spring is that the foliage can become quite dense, especially if you're pinching the spring shoots (it looks like this tree is pinched). So you'll need to thin the outer canopy - perhaps you'll need to do a partial outer canopy defoliation. The goal is to allow light and air into the interior of the tree. To see how to do this, I'd recommend you sign up for Bjorn's online intermediate course on Bonsai Empire. It goes into all of this in quite a lot of detail.

Most of all have fun. This is a nice tree and tridents will keep you busy. I like that you got in there and wired it - the practice will pay off down the line. Consider taking Colin's wiring class on Craftsy - it's free and an excellent instructional video. Pay particular attention to the parts about anchoring and how to wire two branches with a single piece of wire. And also the parts about the relative stength of two smaller pieces of wire as compared to a single large piece. Actually, it's all good. When you're done, critically evaluate your own wiring and learn from the differences.

Scott
Scott, thank you for the additional information.

I have posted several times in the past that winter wiring of deciduous trees is not very effective, and the time to be wiring them is to wire the new shoots while they are still soft and have leaves. Once they're lignified, you can remove the wire. Usually in about a month to 6 weeks. Maybe even less! Once that's done, it's time to cut back, and let it grow out again. Then wire again. Etc.

You mentioned this technique in your Ebihara thread, but I think most people either missed it, or deny it.

I have received considerable pushback from others on this forum about spring/summer wiring and cutback for tridents. But it's the best way.
 
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