Branch, Knob, Concave, whats the point?

Johnathan

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Okay, so I've narrowed down my tools of choice to carbon Kaneshin. Its only taken me a year and a half to decide that lol

On a side note, I've also decided to go with Blue Steel Scissors.....

Now, I'm looking at various tools and it seems I could eliminate the use of straight branch cutter with some cheap Fiskars,.... and I could eliminate the knob cutter by simply purchasing a Concave Branch Cutter. I know that everyone says knob cutters are essential, but what am I missing? Am I missing something?

Should I actually buy 3 separate tools? Branch Cutter, Knob Cutter, Concave Branch Cutter?
 

Adair M

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I don’t know what a “branch cutter” is.

The regular “concave cutters” are essential. As are “knob cutters”, but the concave cutters are more so. Knob cutters make a rounded cut, the concave cutters cut straight, but take out a chunk, leaving a concave scar.
 

Johnathan

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I don’t know what a “branch cutter” is.

The regular “concave cutters” are essential. As are “knob cutters”, but the concave cutters are more so. Knob cutters make a rounded cut, the concave cutters cut straight, but take out a chunk, leaving a concave scar.

Whoops sorry, I think what I meant was the branch/concave cutters as referred to on the Kaneshin site that I am looking at offer two blade options. Some have a straight edge, and others a rounded, more traditional in my mind "concave" design.
Screenshot_20181112-230629_Chrome.jpg

I suppose what I'm asking is would there still be a chunk removed if you used this straight edge concave cutter? If so, would the round edge just leave a bigger more pronounced concave scar?

If it does this, then is there really a need for the knob cutter?

Would the straight edge concave cutter along with the separate knob cutter make a more precise concave scar?

Sorry if these are remedial questions, just a lot of tools and small subtleties to decipher lol
 

Potawatomi13

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Personally most use straight edge concave cutter. Round edged one is sort of half way to knob cutter. "Branch" cutter(shears, pruners)used for twigs, small less significant cuts, Concave for bigger branch cuts, junctions of branches, "sometimes" remove trunk branches but this often best to use Knob cutter that makes rounded cut all around scar and heals flat better than Concave does in same spot;). In that order these 3 tools the most important. Next most is Bonsai wire cutter and wire pliers. Maybe wire cutter more important than Knob cutter/maybe equalo_O. Once getting and using specialized tools will have great appreciation for inventor of same. Personally LOVE mine every time I use. One thing: always be aware where edges of Concave cutter closing as VERY easy to cut in or off of finger:eek::mad:!
 
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0soyoung

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I use cheapo pruning scissors (use 'em and toss ' em when dull), a good quality medium sized concave cutter (the straight edge type), and a Dremmel with a bit similar to bonsa4me's 'Nibbler'. A concave cutter is, IMHO, good for nibbling away at chopping stubs and stem bits below air layer roots. Had the Dremmel tool not worked out as well as it did I think I would have bought a largish knob cutter (but I already got the Dremmel and the bit was far cheaper).

Add a wire cutter, a forcept/tweezer and a root hook and you've got my bonsai tool set. It really doesn't take much.

But, I do a lot of gardening work with my wife and have occasionally applied the hedge shear, the Felco bypass pruner, the branch lopper, and/or the small hardware store tree saw to my 2B bonsai. If you grow a lot of azaleas, you may want a nice little shear.

I forgot, an $8 ratchet strap is very handy in lieu of an expensive jack for many bending tasks.
 
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Adair M

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The rounded concave cutters is a hybrid of the basic concave cutter and knob cutter. I don’t have one. I use concave cutters and knob cutters. Don’t need the hybrid.

Good wire cutters and Jin pliers are helpful.

My MOST USED tools are good tweezers! But, I have a lot of pines and I do a lot of refinement work.
 

Adair M

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There is a whole separate set of essential tools needed for repotting, but for the most part they are not expensive. They are:

Sycle, 3 pronged rake, root hook, bent tip tweezers, and root scissors. The root scissors are the most expensive tool. They are scissors that have the handles bent. They allow you to cut the bottom of the root ball flat without your fingers rubbing the bottom as you cut.
 

Anthony

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@Johnathan ,

if you plan ahead and draw an image,
The use of tools comes down to a simple concave pruner and a straight
scissors.
If you Grow and clip, no wire is needed.

Concave pruners are for cutting toothpick or matchstick size branches.

Masakuni wrote a book and Murata proof read it.
Very useful see - Amazon 2nd hand books.

Wire and barerooting slow down tree development.

But Lingnan [ Grow and Clip ] uses Art training to work, as it
was developed by Scholars in China,
Scholar as the word is used in China, is one who draws, ink paints,
writes prose / poetry and is well versed in the Classical works.

So most have no choice, but to use wire.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Adair M

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@Johnathan ,

if you plan ahead and draw an image,
The use of tools comes down to a simple concave pruner and a straight
scissors.
If you Grow and clip, no wire is needed.

Concave pruners are for cutting toothpick or matchstick size branches.

Masakuni wrote a book and Murata proof read it.
Very useful see - Amazon 2nd hand books.

Wire and barerooting slow down tree development.

But Lingnan [ Grow and Clip ] uses Art training to work, as it
was developed by Scholars in China,
Scholar as the word is used in China, is one who draws, ink paints,
writes prose / poetry and is well versed in the Classical works.

So most have no choice, but to use wire.
Good Day
Anthony
Anthony, as I have said many times, you live in your own reality.

How can you effect a curve between internodes using clip and grow?
 

Mike Hennigan

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After standard concave cutters, a good pair of scissors, wire cutters and pliers I’d say that my favorite tool that I get a lot of use out of is my stainless steel root cutters. The way the cutting edge is designed, you can easily cut through thicker roots than you could with a concave cuttter of the same size and I don’t worry about getting my carbon concaves constantly wet to do root work. They are essential to me for doing any structural root pruning.

The thing is that I find root cutters to be really useful for other things besides cutting roots, specifically dead wood work. They essentially have the same type of cutting edge as a trunk splitter, but the shape makes them stronger. So you can use them to split and pull wood instead of going back and forth with pliers to pull the wood constantly. Have been really surprised at how much use I get from them.
 

Mike Hennigan

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Anthony, as I have said many times, you live in your own reality.

How can you effect a curve between internodes using clip and grow?

??? Lol, thanks for stating this. All the time when I read Anthony’s posts it’s as if he’s posting on the wrong thread by accident. Always something tangential. Like he’s posting from a parallel universe. Wasn’t sure if I was missing something or if he’s just a secret genius.
 

Anthony

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@Adair M ,

Sifu,

if you look at the trees we grow, how do you explain the movement ?

Plus Grow and Clip [ Lingnan ] ages from angular to curves, and
looks natural.

Ypu have also seen how things are pulled down or moved.

The idea is, we do not wrap trees in wire, and that trees evolved to
handle breaks, tears, but a strangler vine will normally
kill a branch or tree, since the tree handles compression of the
bark badly.

I should not have to explain this to someone with 40+ years iof
growing and observing trees in nature ??????????
Thanks for responding as always.
Good Day
Anthony [ entering the black hole to enter Earth Prime ]:)o_O:eek::cool:

Gmelina -- clip and grow
From a small cutting now around 30 years +

gmelina.jpg
 

Mike Hennigan

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@Adair M ,

Sifu,

if you look at the trees we grow, how do you explain the movement ?

Plus Grow and Clip [ Lingnan ] ages from angular to curves, and
looks natural.

Ypu have also seen how things are pulled down or moved.

The idea is, we do not wrap trees in wire, and that trees evolved to
handle breaks, tears, but a strangler vine will normally
kill a branch or tree, since the tree handles compression of the
bark badly.

I should not have to explain this to someone with 40+ years iof
growing and observing trees in nature ??????????
Thanks for responding as always.
Good Day
Anthony [ entering the black hole to enter Earth Prime ]:)o_O:eek::cool:

Gmelina -- clip and grow
From a small cutting now around 30 years +

View attachment 217284

Gorgeous tree!
 

Anthony

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@Mike Hennigan ,

thank you, I will pass it on to my brother-in-law K.
He designed it.
Now I don't feel so weird :)

It is actually a shrub [ 15 foot max ] and a hedge.
A hedge can do anything --- cold tolerant to lower 30's.
https://www.wigertsbonsai.com/gmelina-philippensis-2/

Wanna try your hand at one ?

Oh one for the road - Sageretia t. and Serissa [ s and Japanese ]
are both zone 7 and check Sifu's [ Adair M.] zone 7a
Now imagine with his ability what he could do.

If he didn't classify them as ------ Tropical.:eek:o_O:);)
Good Day
Anthony
 

Cable

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and I could eliminate the knob cutter by simply purchasing a Concave Branch Cutter. I know that everyone says knob cutters are essential, but what am I missing? Am I missing something?

My knob cutter has the most aggressive bite and can cut head on. I've found both features to be extremely useful at times. I don't really consider it "essential" but I'm very glad I have one. I use it a lot.

That said, all of my tools are pretty dainty and sometimes I go for the bypass pruners when I have a thick branch or trunk that aren't really substantial enough for the saw.
 

TN_Jim

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With some species isn’t the straight edge preferable? I have heard this is the case with crepe myrtle, as you do not want a concave impression in the tree, but rather a flush, flat, cut.
 

defra

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I leave little stubs often they help out to anchor wire sometimes and the next season i clip em out with concave leaving slightly hollow wound heals up Nice
About crepe myrtle i wouldnt know i have two small ones since this spring to grow out but know nothing about them
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Whoops sorry, I think what I meant was the branch/concave cutters as referred to on the Kaneshin site that I am looking at offer two blade options. Some have a straight edge, and others a rounded, more traditional in my mind "concave" design.
View attachment 217271

I suppose what I'm asking is would there still be a chunk removed if you used this straight edge concave cutter? If so, would the round edge just leave a bigger more pronounced concave scar?

If it does this, then is there really a need for the knob cutter?

Would the straight edge concave cutter along with the separate knob cutter make a more precise concave scar?

Sorry if these are remedial questions, just a lot of tools and small subtleties to decipher lol
I bought a pair of Kaneshin spherical concave cutters (right tool in your photo) a few years ago and it has become a go-to cutter for me. For 20 years, I used mainly knob cutters and concave cutters, but have found the spherical concave cutter gives the access of a concave cutter, but the bite of a knob cutter. As mentioned though, the 8” cutters are really designed to cut branches less than 1/2” in diameter. Much larger, and a small saw is a cleaner way to go.
 
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