Brazilian Rain Tree help needed

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
Hi, I have questions regarding my BRT, 35 yrs old, got it 2 weeks ago. I am also kinda new to Bonsai, have had them in the past but could not deepen my knowledge.
Located in South Florida Miami, sitting outside facing South all day ( its Winter so it gets sun until 3 pm). The tray is under soil but the top soil of the tree is not covered. Maybe thats the whole issue since we can't control if it gets enough water or too much water and if the water drains or not. Or its still under stress from relocating ? Different location, different water quality. different schedules of watering. Possible still after 2 weeks?
I am confused and not sure to stop watering . The weather was cloudy last 3 days so I stopped watering it and started last night again. Not really seeing a difference. I also put some green fertilizer on the top close to the upper roots and trunk what I received from the nursery.
Looking at the color of the leaves I don't feel that its the right color of this tree but maybe there are different species?
The green is not a nice full green like the ones I see on this forum. It might lack nitrogen ? I did a big google search from Adam's blog through YouTube and Bonsai Empire and so on. I got a few infos out of it but really not enough to understand how I should maintain this beauty regarding water, fertilizer, repotting, pruning. I really would love to change the whole soil as I think this might be the real issue here, but afraid of this task without info and guidance. Since this is a tropical tree do I have to wait until the spring to do the job or it does not matter? And what fertilizers are the best ones for the BRT, should I use organic Biogold? Is Nitrogen included there? Is akadama, pomice and lava a good mix for a BRT this age?
I will post pictures and hope somebody can assist :}
Happy New Year !!
 

Attachments

  • brt.png
    brt.png
    260.3 KB · Views: 117
  • brt1.png
    brt1.png
    224.1 KB · Views: 123
  • brt2.png
    brt2.png
    265.4 KB · Views: 120

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
9,225
Reaction score
16,925
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
7B
LOL stop!

We have all been there. Do not kill your tree with kindness :) Let's dissect this and figure it out.

Where did you get this tree? Can you take a photo of the soil and the base of the trunk?
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
Hi, Thank you so much for replying. My son bought it at a Tropical Bonsai Miami on 17th Dec. I attach a picture from the tree at the nursery. It already was looking kinda yellowish, unfortunately I was not present when my son bought it.

PZMX7912 (1).JPG
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
Ok so I stop watering it again? I watered it last night as it looked dry and sad.
its night right now put I will try to get you pics from the trunk and soil. Give me second pls
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
I stopped watering 3 days and watered it last night. So how long should I stop watering it and should I pull the tray out of the soil to observe better the water drainage? It already lost quite some foliage


bf9e5413-3bde-4d1a-b2ba-b20f6a2e876a.jpg

530e7664-11b3-43e6-89c5-a0bfb7775ab8.jpg

bf9e5413-3bde-4d1a-b2ba-b20f6a2e876a.jpg

c9936da3-abc6-497e-b07a-1f3a237804ec.jpg
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
this is how he looked this morning, the pictures in my first message was the night before when I decided to water it after 3 days of no water and no sun for 3 daysbrt3.jpg


underneath the picture from last night and I got scared when I saw it and watered it at midnight


brt4.jpg
 

LanceMac10

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,923
Reaction score
14,666
Location
Nashua, NH U.S.A.
USDA Zone
5
Take it out of the ground. It's not draining freely, so it's not pulling oxygen thru the soil. Soil looks FAR too damp.
Leaves are programmed to close at night, in too much sun or as a result of stress/care routine. Don't water at night!
In your area, I would repot in May, or when low's touch 60's....
Soil? Go back to point of purchase and see if they will sell you what they use.
Fertilizer? Same thing.

A few threads about BRT here. Take some time and read thru them.
Adam's blog is ok, but he defoliates too much, in my opinion. As far as BRT's are concerned, on his blog, they seem anemic and weak-growing. Too much energy spent trying to replace foliage instead of replenishing spent reserves. Reflexive leaves expend lots of resources, keep them on to supply nutrients. A strong tree is a workable tree.


Good luck!!:cool:
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
Thank you very much for your advice. Should I prune the yellow parts and shorten the too long twigs? How long should I stop watering to give the tree possibility to recover?
Fertilizing ok right now?
 

MHBonsai

Shohin
Messages
268
Reaction score
461
Location
Nashville, TN
USDA Zone
7a
I wouldn't remove any foliage right now. Let it keep what it's got to recover. It's a great looking tree!

They look 'sad' at night as they close up leaves. It can be alarming but it's nothing to worry about. As for watering, it's hard to guess at watering - you will be a better judge than folks off the internet. The soil should be moist but well draining. These are thirsty plants! I'd keep it off the ground so it can drain freely.

Give it time to react to your location before doing anything drastic. It's not uncommon for tropical plants to totally defoliate on their own when moved or under stress.
 

ml_work

Chumono
Messages
580
Reaction score
461
Location
Alabama
USDA Zone
8
I had a nice BRT, not near that large but it was not a small twig. I found if I moved it from one spot on the sun room to another it would get un happy and drop leaves. Few weeks new ones would come back. Over a few years it did die so my advice is just what I saw.
The first BRT I got was a Christmas present to myself so I put it in an unused room to wait until Christmas to get it. Out of site out of mind, I failed to water it, when I picked it up all the leaves were brown and fell off! Put in the sun room and mist 3 times a day and watered as needed, in time all new leaves came back.
The leaves closing at night is the cool thing about them, they close on an over cast day too.
I have never purchased from Tropical Bonsai Miami, but check their site and they have been around awhile. A tree that size cost a good bit and should be in good health. I would give them a call and send pictures of what it going on, I would think they should stand behind the purchase for 30 day or so.
Hope this Helps
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
I wouldn't remove any foliage right now. Let it keep what it's got to recover. It's a great looking tree!

They look 'sad' at night as they close up leaves. It can be alarming but it's nothing to worry about. As for watering, it's hard to guess at watering - you will be a better judge than folks off the internet. The soil should be moist but well draining. These are thirsty plants! I'd keep it off the ground so it can drain freely.

Give it time to react to your location before doing anything drastic. It's not uncommon for tropical plants to totally defoliate on their own when moved or under stress.
Thank you very much for your opinion, I will certainly watch the watering and see if my son let me pull it out the soil, at least until it recovers from stress and new habitat and I can monitor if it drains evenly. I also guess water needs to be evenly applied to the whole tray since roots will be everywhere. Plants are emotional and of course will react on everything what is new. Happy New Year
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
I had a nice BRT, not near that large but it was not a small twig. I found if I moved it from one spot on the sun room to another it would get un happy and drop leaves. Few weeks new ones would come back. Over a few years it did die so my advice is just what I saw.
The first BRT I got was a Christmas present to myself so I put it in an unused room to wait until Christmas to get it. Out of site out of mind, I failed to water it, when I picked it up all the leaves were brown and fell off! Put in the sun room and mist 3 times a day and watered as needed, in time all new leaves came back.
The leaves closing at night is the cool thing about them, they close on an over cast day too.
I have never purchased from Tropical Bonsai Miami, but check their site and they have been around awhile. A tree that size cost a good bit and should be in good health. I would give them a call and send pictures of what it going on, I would think they should stand behind the purchase for 30 day or so.
Hope this Helps
Thank you as well for your reply. I certainly will call them and send them a few pictures to take a look. Will update on their response. I love the fact of it closing the leaves and in the morning it looks all so much better. Happy New Year!
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
Something NEW to me with my BRT today since I am home and enjoying not working and monitoring it.
The leaves of this BRT open with daylight but around 1pm today in sunny mixed with cloud day and 80 F the most exposed leaves to the sun started closing their leaves while the more greener and healthier looking leaves what are on the backside are fully open. Might this be a message for me that something isn't right or it simply is trying to protect its leave from drying out by closing them?
Let me do some pics for you to see what I mean
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
Cool, so this BRT is quite a very unique and smart tree. That’s awesome.
I figured the issue here is watering (too much), the tray needs to stay outside the soil, and it needs time to digest all the new stress factors.
I will observe the soil conditions until Sat without watering. Than I’ll be watering in the morning and monitor drainage by pulling out the tray putting it on a stand on Saturday. That way I can make pics from the roots if I am able to pull it out of the tray.
It’s quite a big tray and I am wondering if in the spring I should put it in a more shallow pot? However a smaller pot might not harmonize visually with this big BRT.
Any inputs on that how to choose the correct size of a pot?
 

MHBonsai

Shohin
Messages
268
Reaction score
461
Location
Nashville, TN
USDA Zone
7a
Cool, so this BRT is quite a very unique and smart tree. That’s awesome.
I figured the issue here is watering (too much), the tray needs to stay outside the soil, and it needs time to digest all the new stress factors.
I will observe the soil conditions until Sat without watering. Than I’ll be watering in the morning and monitor drainage by pulling out the tray putting it on a stand on Saturday. That way I can make pics from the roots if I am able to pull it out of the tray.
It’s quite a big tray and I am wondering if in the spring I should put it in a more shallow pot? However a smaller pot might not harmonize visually with this big BRT.
Any inputs on that how to choose the correct size of a pot?

What is the tray you are referring to?
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
What is the tray you are referring to?
The tray my BRT has is quite deep. Pretty sure that is the tray it needs but just trying to figure out if a BRT this size can fit in a more shallow pot . Have seen big sized bonsai in more shallow trays like mine.
 

MHBonsai

Shohin
Messages
268
Reaction score
461
Location
Nashville, TN
USDA Zone
7a
The tray my BRT has is quite deep. Pretty sure that is the tray it needs but just trying to figure out if a BRT this size can fit in a more shallow pot . Have seen big sized bonsai in more shallow trays like mine.

Is this what you are referring to as a tray? This is a standard production bonsai pot. Trays are something different in the bonsai community. Just trying to avoid some confusion with your wording.

I'd let it stay in that pot until it gets healthy and you are certain you can meet it's needs before digging into the roots. It needs to recover. Keep it well draining but moist and out of the ground, let it push out some new leaves and get healthy and then the future will be clearer. I wouldn't repot myself for a year.

Pot size is roughly linked to trunk thickness and tree height. Google is your friend on that one, several online articles. Best thing you can do is get involved in your local community, see lots of trees in person.

https://www.bonsaiempire.com/basics/bonsai-care/advanced/choosing-pots

Cheers,

Capture.JPG
 

janaiya

Yamadori
Messages
97
Reaction score
49
Location
South Florida
USDA Zone
10
Yep, it’s original tray. And yes I won’t touch it for now. I was referring to spring and wonder what is the best soil mix , akadama, pomice and lava? I just want to be prepared and not doing last minute
 

shinmai

Chumono
Messages
623
Reaction score
1,304
Location
Milwaukee WI
USDA Zone
5b
A couple of thoughts based on my limited experience with my two BRT's....
One, they seem to be among those species that will drop leaves in response to a change in conditions. Both of mine did, for example, when they were moved from outside into the basement under lights when the nighttime temperatures got down to 50. After a few days of adjustment, everything was green and happy again. If the entire canopy turns yellow or drops leaves, or shows desiccation of the bark on small branches, that's a whole different kettle of fish--usually coming down to overwatering, poor drainage, insufficient nutrients, or some combination thereof.
Second, regarding soil, that's one topic sure to get a host of different opinions--just about everyone has their personal favorite. The over-arching imperative is always drainage, hence the old maxim about watering bonsai twice. By placing your pot in the ground, you are taking on whatever the drainage character of the surrounding soil is. If, for example, that were in my front yard, which is full of red clay, it would be like sealing the drain holes in the bottom of the pot--the water would have no place to go.
My advice, FWIW, is get the pot out of the ground, let it get a little drier, and then see whether it drains clearly when you water it a bit. If it does, you don't have a problem. If it doesn't, the problem is the soil in the pot, and there are numerous ways to address that.
For an interesting perspective on what to grow trees in, check out Harry Harrington's website, bonsai4me.com. For years he has been growing all of his trees--trops, deciduous, and conifers--in untreated cat litter, and swears by it.
PS...it's very helpful if you add your location, or at least your USDA climate zone, to your avatar--makes it much easier for people to respond to your question in the context of where you are trying to grow something, and what weather you might be facing at a given time of year. Best of luck with your new tree.
 

Similar threads

Top