Breaking dormancy and sunshine

WNC Bonsai

Omono
Messages
1,867
Reaction score
2,049
Location
Western NC
USDA Zone
7b
Ok, so everything is breaking dormancy and leafing out. In some websites I have read that trees should be moved into a shady area first then gradually into more sunshine. My problem is my yard is full of deciduous trees and have no leaves yet. This makes it a little difficult to find any shady areas to use as a transition zone. I wonder what to do with all these little guys with their new leaves and needles popping out? Also, if the leaves open and develop in what amounts to full sun will they not develop sufficient pigments to protect themselves or will they just burn up and wilt? I do keep newly repotted trees out of wind and sun by moving them onto the screened porch for a week or so but what about the rest? Do I need to hang a sheet of shade cloth between some tree trunks to provide a transition zone or build a shade hiuse for them?
 

Igor. T. Ljubek

Yamadori
Messages
64
Reaction score
78
Location
Slovenia
USDA Zone
7b
This is from Graham Potter's Kaizen Bonsai tree care information guide:

"Another widely disseminated myth is that re-potted bonsai be put in the shade. If you live in Spain or Sicily this is good advice but in the U.K even the height of summer is not really warm as far as plants are concerned. In order to recover from the ordeal of re-potting a plant needs to grow new roots by cell division. Cell division is fuelled by the energy produced in the foliage by photosynthesis. In order for this to take place a tree needs good, bright light. Although direct sunlight is not required a re-potted tree, especially evergreens, should be placed in a very bright position. I think the word shade was probably misunderstood for shelter somewhere along the line. Keeping recently potted bonsai out of the wind and in a bright warm spot is the ideal."
 

namnhi

Masterpiece
Messages
2,595
Reaction score
4,553
Location
Houston TX
USDA Zone
8b
Same here. The sun still not all that intense yet and the temp are still low relatively.
 

JudyB

Queen of the Nuts
Messages
13,751
Reaction score
23,250
Location
South East of Cols. OH
USDA Zone
6a
Yeah the moving back into sun gradually is not really about newly leafing trees in the spring. It's more for trees that have overwintered inside with leaves and won't be used to stronger light, or if you move to a different location with stronger sun during the growing season.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,183
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
I give partial shade only to recently repotted trees, mostly to keep them from drying out in the warm dry winds we get in March (things can get dry quick, even with the top post-repotting sphagnum moss covering the topsoil. Only keep them in that shade for a couple of weeks, though.

Keeping them in shade otherwise, leads to rank growth and longer internodes.
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
when they start to wake up, do any of you move them outside, and leave them outside, even if temperatures drop below freezing during the night (let’s say 30-28F ish)

i noticed some ppl who keep potted landscape maples in their garage over winter DO move them out, and leave them out, despite the risk of freezing temps

are we being overly cautious with bonsai?

just curious

@0soyoung @LanceMac10 i think you guys have potted landscape maples?
 

WNC Bonsai

Omono
Messages
1,867
Reaction score
2,049
Location
Western NC
USDA Zone
7b
when they start to wake up, do any of you move them outside, and leave them outside, even if temperatures drop below freezing during the night (let’s say 30-28F ish)

i noticed some ppl who keep potted landscape maples in their garage over winter DO move them out, and leave them out, despite the risk of freezing temps

are we being overly cautious with bonsai?

just curious

@0soyoung @LanceMac10 i think you guys have potted landscape maples?
Let’s do an experiment. How about you leave a few outside in the coming nights and let us know how it works for you. I am expecting nightly lows of 26-31 for the next week so all my deciduous trees that have leafed out are going back in the garage. I’ll put them in the bed of the pickup and just back it outside each morning once temps warm up. I have several dozen 1 year old maples and I don’t want to take the chance.
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
29,698
Location
SE MI- Bonsai'd for 12 years both MA and N GA
USDA Zone
6a
when they start to wake up, do any of you move them outside, and leave them outside, even if temperatures drop below freezing during the night (let’s say 30-28F ish)

i noticed some ppl who keep potted landscape maples in their garage over winter DO move them out, and leave them out, despite the risk of freezing temps

are we being overly cautious with bonsai?

just curious

@0soyoung @LanceMac10 i think you guys have potted landscape maples?
For good or for bad, several recently root worked tridents and palmatums were allowed to freeze last week... not sure what the soil temps were under a light oak leaf mulch but air temps in the AM were in the mid 20's F. Over the last 20+ years, I have similar scenarios develop with JBP, Hawthorn, Juniper... everything grew/is growing strongly now. I recall reading that Colin Lewis doesn't protect hardy trees from freezing temps post re-pot... I suspect we probably are a little over cautious.




... but I'll still protect those special trees if I can!
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,183
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
For good or for bad, several recently root worked tridents and palmatums were allowed to freeze last week... not sure what the soil temps were under a light oak leaf mulch but air temps in the AM were in the mid 20's F. Over the last 20+ years, I have similar scenarios develop with JBP, Hawthorn, Juniper... everything grew/is growing strongly now. I recall reading that Colin Lewis doesn't protect hardy trees from freezing temps post re-pot... I suspect we probably are a little over cautious.




... but I'll still protect those special trees if I can!

Keep saying that and you will lose trees ;-)

I'd rather be cautious than have dead trees. I had late winter kill a couple of trees last year because or forced early repotting and late freezes afterward. You were lucky those mid-20s didn't linger for a couple more nights. Those kinds of freezes linger here and it is a problem for newly repotted trees, including native collected species--Carolina hornbeam is particularly susceptible to late deep cold snaps...BC too.
 

Lionheart

Yamadori
Messages
61
Reaction score
44
Location
Alexandria, VA
USDA Zone
7
I have just re-potted most of my trees. I'm keeping them in the shed to protect against freezing night temps, not so much to protect from too much or too intense sunlight. Most of these re-potted trees have yet to break bud. I'm too new at this to take a chance with most everything I've got.
 

Cadillactaste

Neagari Gal
Messages
16,262
Reaction score
20,886
Location
NE Ohio: zone 4 (USA) lake microclimate
USDA Zone
5b
when they start to wake up, do any of you move them outside, and leave them outside, even if temperatures drop below freezing during the night (let’s say 30-28F ish)

i noticed some ppl who keep potted landscape maples in their garage over winter DO move them out, and leave them out, despite the risk of freezing temps

are we being overly cautious with bonsai?

just curious

@0soyoung @LanceMac10 i think you guys have potted landscape maples?
Nope, they lose their cold hardiness. I even lost a landscape tree last year from it waking early and then a cold sap as did my local nursery...they lost hundreds of trees last spring just didn't wake up. They said it was from their waking and U.S. Getting that cold spell after.
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
29,698
Location
SE MI- Bonsai'd for 12 years both MA and N GA
USDA Zone
6a
Keep saying that and you will lose trees ;-)

I'd rather be cautious than have dead trees. I had late winter kill a couple of trees last year because or forced early repotting and late freezes afterward. You were lucky those mid-20s didn't linger for a couple more nights. Those kinds of freezes linger here and it is a problem for newly repotted trees, including native collected species--Carolina hornbeam is particularly susceptible to late deep cold snaps...BC too.
Again, I don’t go out of my way to let it happen, but I’ve had multiple instances where root pruned and repotted trees of various cold hardy species have had their soil frozen anywhere from several hours to several days and they’ve been fine. One of my large tridents even had a few leaves... it was up against the foundation, under a deck and mulched... soil froze solid and stayed that way for 2 days. It’s growing well. It had only recently started moving and the soil probably didn’t freeze all the way through.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,183
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Again, I don’t go out of my way to let it happen, but I’ve had multiple instances where root pruned and repotted trees of various cold hardy species have had their soil frozen anywhere from several hours to several days and they’ve been fine. One of my large tridents even had a few leaves... it was up against the foundation, under a deck and mulched... soil froze solid and stayed that way for 2 days. It’s growing well. It had only recently started moving and the soil probably didn’t freeze all the way through.
you don't say how deep the freeze was. It makes a difference. A couple of nights at 30 is vastly different than a couple at 22-25.
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
29,698
Location
SE MI- Bonsai'd for 12 years both MA and N GA
USDA Zone
6a
you don't say how deep the freeze was. It makes a difference. A couple of nights at 30 is vastly different than a couple at 22-25.
I mentioned in my first post that air temps were in the mid 20's by morning. Again, likely not to be a deep freezing event for a large tree in a large pot on the ground and mulched.
 

LanceMac10

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,798
Reaction score
17,176
Location
Nashua, NH U.S.A.
USDA Zone
5
when they start to wake up, do any of you move them outside, and leave them outside, even if temperatures drop below freezing during the night (let’s say 30-28F ish)

i noticed some ppl who keep potted landscape maples in their garage over winter DO move them out, and leave them out, despite the risk of freezing temps

are we being overly cautious with bonsai?

just curious

@0soyoung @LanceMac10 i think you guys have potted landscape maples?




Everything goes outside next weekend. Tropicals last couple weeks April.
Two years ago my neighbor killed every tree he repotted. Honestly, they were still dormant, in my opinion. Three-four days of freezing temperatures killed all.
Pulled trunks right out of the soil with no roots what-so-ever!!!!


Only worry now, really, is friggen' marauding squirrels!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
Messages
1,101
Reaction score
2,177
Location
Tennessee
USDA Zone
7a
I made the mistake of putting out a newly leafed willow and chinese elms in bright sun but on a freezing day. All went completely brown. The willow might survive as I am seeing new green buds but the chinese elms don't look like they are recovering. Lesson learned.
 

coh

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,781
Reaction score
6,822
Location
Rochester, NY
USDA Zone
6
when they start to wake up, do any of you move them outside, and leave them outside, even if temperatures drop below freezing during the night (let’s say 30-28F ish)
Basically...yes. From what I've seen, most hardy trees can handle a light freeze as they are leafing out. Trees in the landscape are exposed to light freezing conditions during leaf out
most springs and they do fine.

Now, the trick is...I've found temps down to 30, 29 F are usually OK, especially if only for a couple of hours late at night. However...the problem is you don't know if the
temp is going to stop at 30 or 29 or drift down to 25 or 24. Once you get down into the mid 20s new growth can be killed completely. We had that happen a few years ago. It was the really
warm winter and everything was into growth by March. Then we had a hard freeze down to about 22 F and the new growth on everything (yard trees, not bonsai which were brought in) was killed.
Trees sprouted again and were growing strongly, then we had another hard freeze down to around 22 F in mid or late April. All new growth was completely killed back a second time. Some weak/young
plants in the growing bed didn't make it through that double whammy. Most survived and put out a third growth flush.

You have to know your trees and your microclimate. Clear skies/light winds/low dewpoint increase the risk of temperatures dropping colder than expected. If the dewpoint is 30 F chances are the
air temperature won't drop much below 30 (it can, but usually won't).
 
Top Bottom