Hello to all . My name is joe and this past winter was my first since I got into the beautiful hobby of bonsai I live in Toledo Ohio and the winters are long and harsh . I stored all my trees in my unheated garage this winter . I have been taking my trees out during the days and putting them back in at night I was wondering since they have been in a garage with some light during the winter but not much . Should I be putting my trees in direct sun now or is it too soon ? The days here have been 38-55 degrees Fahrenheit and the nights get down to about 26 degrees Fahrenheit. I also have some 1 year old Japanese black pine seedlings that I just repotted about 5 days ago should they be in full sun after repotting. ?? Please if someone would share there knowledge w
Bringing trees out of dormancy
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Japonicus
Masterpiece
Hi Joe. Welcome to the forum.
Ideally it's nice to increase light exposure to full Sun in steps, I try.
It can be difficult to do this with a daytime job, so I move mine out of my cave
to some steps on the N side of the house for a week, then bring them around to
the full Sun S side just before a rainy or particularly cloudy day and be done with it.
You can probably stop the shuffle for temperatures sake, for junipers and pines by now.
Just keep an eye on water requirements. I'm surprised how much water mine are using already.
The repotted pine (or junipers for that matter)...protect from drying winds. Mist when possible, keep in Sun
otherwise. Once growth is evident, you can slowly over time, let your guard down on protecting from winds
and shoot for as much Sun exposure as possible. If you repot junipers this Spring, keep all the upper foliage
on each branch (do not prune other than to clean up underneath, or other than to wire or remove branches that
are not part of the current design that block Sunlight from lower branches) so as to collect as much Sunlight as possible this year.
Ideally it's nice to increase light exposure to full Sun in steps, I try.
It can be difficult to do this with a daytime job, so I move mine out of my cave
to some steps on the N side of the house for a week, then bring them around to
the full Sun S side just before a rainy or particularly cloudy day and be done with it.
You can probably stop the shuffle for temperatures sake, for junipers and pines by now.
Just keep an eye on water requirements. I'm surprised how much water mine are using already.
The repotted pine (or junipers for that matter)...protect from drying winds. Mist when possible, keep in Sun
otherwise. Once growth is evident, you can slowly over time, let your guard down on protecting from winds
and shoot for as much Sun exposure as possible. If you repot junipers this Spring, keep all the upper foliage
on each branch (do not prune other than to clean up underneath, or other than to wire or remove branches that
are not part of the current design that block Sunlight from lower branches) so as to collect as much Sunlight as possible this year.
Japonicus
Masterpiece
Oh, and you've got this thread under the announcements forum...
Edit your profile to include your USDA grow zone, and general location for future helps along the journey
and so folks get an idea of where you're coming from in your posts
https://www.toledoblade.com/a-e/Gar...anting-in-NW-Ohio-SE-Mich/stories/20140330011
https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/
Edit your profile to include your USDA grow zone, and general location for future helps along the journey
and so folks get an idea of where you're coming from in your posts
https://www.toledoblade.com/a-e/Gar...anting-in-NW-Ohio-SE-Mich/stories/20140330011
https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/
Thank you very much for your knowledge.this forum has been a major help to me and someone is always helpful for that I am thankful I just recently got into bonsai about a year ago Very heavily pick up the hobby after my dad passed away . I kinda went bonsai crazy and instead of just buying a few trees I have collected about a 100 Conifers and pines mostly shims , Nanas and a few other yews and things I also have about 30 tropicals I keep inside as well they definitely keep me busy around the clock and I enjoy working on them and having them . Thank you agian for your help . And best luck to you this growing season as well
Lazylightningny
Masterpiece
Hi Joe, I don't have as much experience as most of these guys, but I'll chime in. I overwinter my plants on the ground on the north side of a wall under a poly tunnel. When it rains or snows, I open up the poly tunnel to give them some moisture. When it's windy or cold, I close it back up. You're a little north of me, so my spring is probably a week ahead of yours, but I have already moved my larger conifers to the benches outside, in the sunlight. My smaller conifers and all my deciduous are all still up against the wall. None of the buds are moving yet. Since there is still a strong possibility of a damaging freeze, I don't want to put them at risk.
Leo in N E Illinois
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Hello Joe
I'm living at the Illinois - Wisconsin border, also have some property in SW Michigan, not too far from South Haven & Kalamazoo. I believe your winters are about the same as mine. I'll give you some pointers, somewhat disconnected, each paragraph is a stand alone suggestion.
In spring, I try not to bring trees out of my winter storage before the maple trees in the landscape have their leaves half open. Emphasis on try. Unfortunately European and Asian species have a tendency to start a couple weeks too early. I really do wait. And most of the time, my native trees wait. Use the trees in the landscape and the weather forecast to determine if you are past the danger of significant frost. 28 F and cold is significant. (-2 C ). I really do leave my
If a deciduous tree begins growing - you must not allow it to get a significant frost or freeze. One degree of frost might be okay, but seriously, try not to freeze the deciduous that start early. Japanese Maples are notorious for starting 2 to 4 weeks too early. There is no way to stop a tree from growing once it has woken up and started growing. Set them outside as often as practical, bring them back in or under cover if a freeze threatens. A deciduous tree that has started growing in the dark of a garage, needs to be acclimated to full sun. Initially set them out in bright shade. Do the ''In again, out again dance'' to avoid frost and freezes. Then after a week or two of shade, step them into half sun, then another week then step them into full sun. Do not just set a Japanese maple out in full sun in spring. It will burn up.
If you store your conifers for the winter in the dark, garage, well house, tool shed, cold frame, you will also need to slowly acclimate them back to full sun. Again, 2 or 3 steps, bright shade, half sun, full sun. If all the needles formed in full sun in the previous year, the stepping back into full sun can happen in as little as a week.
If the conifers in storage have nor started growing they can be put out and will do fine with a light freeze. I have allowed pines wintered in my above freezing well house to stay out through a 26 or 25 F night. (roughly -4 C). Si generally while I will do the ''in and out'' dance with maples, and other deciduous I usually won't with my conifers, I will leave them out through a light freeze. The resinous sap of most conifers functions as a type of anti-freeze.
I do try to leave my conifers in storage until the leaves are half open on the maples in the landscape. Let nature be your guide.
Deciduous trees in the dark garage that stayed dormant, and have not started growth may be moved directly from the dark to full sun. No leaves to burn.
I'm living at the Illinois - Wisconsin border, also have some property in SW Michigan, not too far from South Haven & Kalamazoo. I believe your winters are about the same as mine. I'll give you some pointers, somewhat disconnected, each paragraph is a stand alone suggestion.
In spring, I try not to bring trees out of my winter storage before the maple trees in the landscape have their leaves half open. Emphasis on try. Unfortunately European and Asian species have a tendency to start a couple weeks too early. I really do wait. And most of the time, my native trees wait. Use the trees in the landscape and the weather forecast to determine if you are past the danger of significant frost. 28 F and cold is significant. (-2 C ). I really do leave my
If a deciduous tree begins growing - you must not allow it to get a significant frost or freeze. One degree of frost might be okay, but seriously, try not to freeze the deciduous that start early. Japanese Maples are notorious for starting 2 to 4 weeks too early. There is no way to stop a tree from growing once it has woken up and started growing. Set them outside as often as practical, bring them back in or under cover if a freeze threatens. A deciduous tree that has started growing in the dark of a garage, needs to be acclimated to full sun. Initially set them out in bright shade. Do the ''In again, out again dance'' to avoid frost and freezes. Then after a week or two of shade, step them into half sun, then another week then step them into full sun. Do not just set a Japanese maple out in full sun in spring. It will burn up.
If you store your conifers for the winter in the dark, garage, well house, tool shed, cold frame, you will also need to slowly acclimate them back to full sun. Again, 2 or 3 steps, bright shade, half sun, full sun. If all the needles formed in full sun in the previous year, the stepping back into full sun can happen in as little as a week.
If the conifers in storage have nor started growing they can be put out and will do fine with a light freeze. I have allowed pines wintered in my above freezing well house to stay out through a 26 or 25 F night. (roughly -4 C). Si generally while I will do the ''in and out'' dance with maples, and other deciduous I usually won't with my conifers, I will leave them out through a light freeze. The resinous sap of most conifers functions as a type of anti-freeze.
I do try to leave my conifers in storage until the leaves are half open on the maples in the landscape. Let nature be your guide.
Deciduous trees in the dark garage that stayed dormant, and have not started growth may be moved directly from the dark to full sun. No leaves to burn.
Hey there I really appreciate. Your response I do not own any deciduous trees at this time just conifers and pine I have been doing the (dance ) for about the past week Before that I stored all my trees in my unheated garage for the winter There is some light in the garage becouse I stored them on top of a work bench next to the window in my garage I would also keep the light on for atleast a few hours out of the day so they was getting some light throughout the winter . The past few days they have been in full sun on my bench that sits south east . I really hope I did not mess up . Idk if I should just put them back in the garage for now and wait untill I see some green on some trees outside. Or if I should keep them on the bench now it’s supposed to be rain and clouds for the next 3 days here . I have some freshly repotted JBP 1 year seedlings and some Mugos and a few shims and red pines I will definitely bring them inside if I see any freezing temps in the forecast. If you don’t mind I have another question when should I start fertilizing I know on the ones that have been repotted I wait untill I see some new growth but how about the rest ? Also it seems like all the junipers I wired last year all the foliage turned brittle, dry so bed that if I touch it it just breaks but it’s only on the parts that I wired ? Any idea what I did wrong? Anyway thank you for your time I really do appreciate your help and I’m thankful to have this forum to help me and as I learn I will definitely pass on the knowledge and help those in need as well so thank you buddy your awesome
Japonicus
Masterpiece
Rain and clouds 3 days your job just got easier. Not moving.
Most of your conifers should adapt just fine, they prefer full Sun, just not suddenly from dormancy,
but freshly reported ones need more protection from drying out. Attentiveness.
The window could only provide limited Sun for a select few out of 100 trees.
The garage light, nothing.
Wire damage as such from bending too radically and out of season.
Autumn is best time to bend, and when the soil is dry the wood is more supple.
I feed mine with fish emulsion now or 50% diluted 7-9-5, or low anaylysis organic.
As frosts subside in a month I increase the values of the anaylysis.
Most of your conifers should adapt just fine, they prefer full Sun, just not suddenly from dormancy,
but freshly reported ones need more protection from drying out. Attentiveness.
The window could only provide limited Sun for a select few out of 100 trees.
The garage light, nothing.
Wire damage as such from bending too radically and out of season.
Autumn is best time to bend, and when the soil is dry the wood is more supple.
I feed mine with fish emulsion now or 50% diluted 7-9-5, or low anaylysis organic.
As frosts subside in a month I increase the values of the anaylysis.
I had to many trees to bury one year and followed advise to winter in an unheated garage, I put some on a shelf and lost everything in there. Trees that were buried and covered with leaves were fine (this has always been my habit) talking to a nursery owner in the spring about it she said "no definitely not a wise move", lesson learned. However I have read on Bnut that putting them on the ground and mulching with Pine bark makes all the difference. I have not tried this but would like to know if people in very cold zones (Quebec, Michigan, Maine) does this with success. I've run out of space against the house. My advice is to put them on the floor at least.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I'm lucky enough to have a underground, unheated well house. It is about 4 feet deep under ground. The roof of the well house is my ground level patio, in the back yard. The soil keeps the temperature relatively constant, between freezing and 40 F (0-4 C). The last week or two before it is safe to put the trees outside, the temp may climb up to 45-50F, ( 6 - 10 C). This is still cool enough that JBP stays more or less dormant. So it is okay if I leave my pines and azalea in the well house without doing the in and out dance.
Garages, being above ground heat up on a warm day and chill down at night. Your trees can wake up early. Top shelves in the garage will be warmer than the floor. Key for winter to spring transition is to keep the trees as cool as possible so they don't break dormancy before danger of frost has passed.
Fertilizer. Generally, trees have stored the fertilizer they need from the autumn. I don't start fertilizer until after new growth has had a few weeks of growing. Too soon, too heavy and you will get overly vigorous elongated foliage. Bad if you want short internodes and smaller leaves. Good if you are just growing for coarse bulk.
Garages, being above ground heat up on a warm day and chill down at night. Your trees can wake up early. Top shelves in the garage will be warmer than the floor. Key for winter to spring transition is to keep the trees as cool as possible so they don't break dormancy before danger of frost has passed.
Fertilizer. Generally, trees have stored the fertilizer they need from the autumn. I don't start fertilizer until after new growth has had a few weeks of growing. Too soon, too heavy and you will get overly vigorous elongated foliage. Bad if you want short internodes and smaller leaves. Good if you are just growing for coarse bulk.
Thanks for the info, they were pretty high, 5-6". I had thought that about putting them in the ground, one slow freeze and one thaw. I didn't think of that in this case, I just thought it was too cold on the roots. Do you know of anyone near you that just mulches them on the ground?
Japonicus
Masterpiece
Perhaps @M. Frary could shed some light with some on the ground wintering in Zone 4...
Not sure if some get more protection than others, but snow pack is key, so if you fail to have that insulator...
not sure how well just mulch would protect.
Being same or near same zone here as you Oleg, 6 a/b depending on La Nina or El Nino years
have a look through this thread for my counter on healing into the ground.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/winter-storage-and-reusing-last-years-mulch.36569/
Maybe you could construct a lean-to similar.
One big factor is keeping plants that are hardy to your zone to begin with, though that (hardiness) does
put them in the ground and not confined to a pot above ground. Ryan Neil stated once that the ground
is something like 8 or 9ºF. warmer than the air temp on a bench.
I used to heal all mine into the ground. Ugh...
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I winter a number of my bonsai just set on the ground. WARNING - this is a species by species decision, Japanese maples are not reliably winter hardy outdoors in my area, neither is JBP. But hemlock, Amelanchier, hinoki, some pines, some spruces, all are hardy enough to just leave on the ground for the winter. Also, if a tree was worked on heavily, I will winter it in the well house, as even hardy trees need protection if heavily worked on without enough recovery time. I also will protect trees in expensive pots. Trees might be fine outdoors, but the pot might crack. IF the pot is valuable, I will protect the tree for the winter.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I do kind of depend on snow pack but there have been winters here where we don't get a lot of snow.
My trees all go on the ground for the winter.
Then I mulch them up to the lowest branches,covering the pots or buckets or colanders.
The mulch part is key.
I use straw but wood chips work well too. They are what we used at the nursery I worked at.
My trees are still frozen solid. They have been since October.
They're fine.
My problem with wintering is V.C. (Varmint Cong)
I have to wall the trees in with steel. They got in this year though. Somehow,someplace. I must have a small hole somewhere.
Thanks Mike, Leo, Japonicus. I had heard that a pile of mulch will attract rodents, my problem has been rabbits They not only jump but they can climb up and over chicken wire, they killed one tree by eating the bark, I had to individually surround each tree with 1/4" Hardware Cloth this year. The repellent sounds interesting, I saw they also have an ultrasonic version if you had an outside plug. I have always used leaves as that's what I learned swinging a rake on yard duty as a kid but the snow really seals the air spaces from the outside temps. and that's the best insulation value. Three layers of defense, dirt, mulch, snow. The weather changes make it all that more difficult in that the extreme cold we can get is far colder than what the zones cover. About ten years ago we got no snow, unheard of here, fluctuating warm to very cold, the only precipitation was when it rose above freezing, then it plunged back down, a lot like this year but without snow. I am growing only zone 6 hardiness and lower so I guess the Larch, Dawn Redwood, Siberian Elms, would be good candidates for mulching on the ground. What do you think about San Jose Junipers and Chinese Elms which may be on the limit as far as the zones go, so far they have been fine but I have been burying them until now. I will be thinking of this in the future, if I don't have the room to put them in the ground I think I should be buying Zone 5. Your idea of a lean-to is good one as everything in grow pots are in grit the negative space fills with water when we have a quick thaw in the frozen ground .
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Japonicus
Masterpiece
https://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/1636/san-jose-juniper/
San Jose juniper to Zone 4
Remember about cover, as with a lean-to which will have good air movement
that you MUST water your trees now and then based on necessity.
You still have to check and water. I watered no more than 4 times this Winter.
Really cannot believe how much water I'm going through already, but it's the trees
that don't require water that scare me...less uptake.
I think now, is an excellent time to begin repotting vigorous junipers here.
Less than vigorous should wait closer to say 2-3 weeks before last frost date
which for me is Mothers Day.
I've got more than half of my plants exposed to full Sun now.
There would be more, I just don't have much space.
Sorry no help on the Elms here. Would like to see your Siberians...
San Jose juniper to Zone 4
Remember about cover, as with a lean-to which will have good air movement
that you MUST water your trees now and then based on necessity.
You still have to check and water. I watered no more than 4 times this Winter.
Really cannot believe how much water I'm going through already, but it's the trees
that don't require water that scare me...less uptake.
I think now, is an excellent time to begin repotting vigorous junipers here.
Less than vigorous should wait closer to say 2-3 weeks before last frost date
which for me is Mothers Day.
I've got more than half of my plants exposed to full Sun now.
There would be more, I just don't have much space.
Sorry no help on the Elms here. Would like to see your Siberians...
Siberians are in the ground and have a way to go, 3 yrs in pots 1 year in the ground. As of this morning I've got my trees under 3" of snow LOL. Up here there's no security before the May 24th weekend (reference; called "The May Two Four" when I was a boy, to prematurely honor the first day of Summer with a large case of beer. They now pack em in a case of thirty and weed's legal! head's spinning but still I'm trying to keep up).
Winter use to be easy I had one spot next to the house under the eaves, which is wind protected and got a little snow/rain, put them in take them out. A different location changes all that, watering becomes a must and some added pitfalls with the grit. Thanks for the Juniper link they are very hardy they would be the ones for above ground and mulching. I'll try to add pics of the Siberians when they get up,.
Winter use to be easy I had one spot next to the house under the eaves, which is wind protected and got a little snow/rain, put them in take them out. A different location changes all that, watering becomes a must and some added pitfalls with the grit. Thanks for the Juniper link they are very hardy they would be the ones for above ground and mulching. I'll try to add pics of the Siberians when they get up,.
WNC Bonsai
Omono
When I mulched my trees last fall I used a Sweeny’s Mole and Gopher Repellent which is Fullers earth particles saturated with castor oil. Works for all burrowing critters. In spite of a huge vole, mole, and mouse population in my yard I didn’t see any damage at all. The trees were all bunched together in an area surrounded by taller conifers with leaves piled up to their lower branches. I had hinokis, bald cypress, Norway spruce, Colorado blue spruce, hemlock, quince, J. Maples, hornbeam, larch, sweetspire, etc. in the pile and every one survived and are now budding/leafing out. I don’t have much shade in my yard right now since most of my landscape trees are deciduous trees, so they are getting whatever sun hits them. I am in zone 7 so no snow pack to deal with but did have a lot of feeze thaw cycles and the mid-winter warm spell.
