Broadleaf Evergreen section?

[Rivka]

As i was searching for info on a newly acquired tree, I started to really find it a bummer that “Broadleaf Evergreen” is not a category.
while that flowering or fruiting covers most of it, it seems odd to not have it.

A quick search for a few broadleaf evergreen species and a look at all the different places a given type is posted in, seems to show that many other folks don’t really know where to put them either.

was this ever addressed? Is there a reason for leaving out this type of category?

 

[Rivka]

Side note for those playing at home....

where would you post threads about Olive trees?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Other Deciduous. Even if not shedding leaves. Kind of like Bald Cypress, Larch that shed needles in Other Conifers.

Is there a reason for leaving out this type of category?

Simplicity perhaps.

 

[Rivka]

Other Deciduous. Even if not shedding leaves. Kind of like Bald Cypress, Larch that shed needles in Other Conifers

Olive is a evergreen, why the hell would you file it under deciduous?

Using larch in the example you give totally fails, because it’s not listing under “Other evergreen” which would be a parallel, its listed under “Conifer” which is agnostic as to if it is evergreen or deciduous.

So if you want to suggest a similar parallel category of “Other Broadleaf” then fine, otherwise you are just babbling unrelated nonsense.

 

[fredman]

WoW you're a feisty one...
I do agree we can do with a Broadleaf Evergreen section.

 

[Starfox]

I'd say they are pretty covered by most categories.

Olive would go in the 'Fruiting' section and most evergreens would probably fall into either the 'Fruiting' or 'Flowering' sections, plus when in doubt there is always 'Miscellaneous' as well.

 

[Rivka]

I'd say they are pretty covered by most categories.

Olive would go in the 'Fruiting' section and most evergreens would probably fall into either the 'Fruiting' or 'Flowering' sections, plus when in doubt there is always 'Miscellaneous' as well.

i do agree they fit there in some way. Though when i think of “fruiting tree” i think of a type that the fruiting is the focal point or attraction for raising one. Like some of the amazing crabapples or persimmons i have seen.
Similar to flowing ones are those that are done first and foremost for the flowing like azaleas, even though most all trees technically flower/fruit.

I wonder how many olive bonsai are allowed to go all the way and bear fruit?

 

[fredman]

True...when I see the fruiting or flowering sections, I think of peaches and daisies
I think we need two new sections...Azalea and Evergreen
I agree they are 'covered' but in my opinion they shouldn't be...sometimes it can take some searching through different sections to find threads about evergreens specifically.

 

[Rivka]

I guess the pondering thought that i had was that there is a
Other conifer, and a other deciduous
But not an other broadleaf, or an other evergreen

the two that were picked are not two opposites that make up a whole, and conifer is not interchangeable with evergreen the same as not all broadleafs are deciduous

So it seems like it makes more sense to have the set be conifer/broadleaf or deciduous/evergreen since either of those cover the full spectrum.

the current set leaves gaps, so i posed the question

 

[Rivka]

I'd say they are pretty covered by most categories.

Olive would go in the 'Fruiting' section and most evergreens would probably fall into either the 'Fruiting' or 'Flowering' sections, plus when in doubt there is always 'Miscellaneous' as well.

So where would you put:
Boxwood?
Japanese Holly?
Money Tree?
Ficus?
Privit?

None of those are particularly grown for their flowers or fruit, and all of them are broadleaf evergreen that are regularly used in bonsai.

 

[just.wing.it]

I put my Ilex, Privet and Boxwood trees in Misc.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

We have a sub-forum "Tropicals" which is another place you can put broadleaf evergreens. "Tropicals" is intended for true tropicals and sub-tropicals, anything that requires mild to warm temperatures in winter. Or is the fact that olive can tolerate a few degrees of frost totally disqualify it for tropicals in your mind?

I would put olives in Misc. or in Fruiting. The fruit of olive is an economic crop afterall.

You make too many categories and nobody will notice any of the categories that fall below the middle of the page.
You do realize that Bonsai Nut Forum has 45 sub-forums already, and very, very few of the forums below the first 10 ever get much traffic. Nobody scrolls down below the upper half of the page.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Mine is in the category of size. Mame and shohin.

What the what...is it?

Well...it falls under mame classification if we go by the size permitted on our mame contest. Raw stock...oh, seller says it's a Black Olive. Will have to let this one grow out and study it some to decide on a direction. To quirky to pass up. Not for everyone...I do get that. Size : width 2...

www.bonsainut.com

Broadleaf is such a large group. I think flowering or fruiting breaks it down further to a smaller niche to be honest.

 

[shinmai]

True...when I see the fruiting or flowering sections, I think of peaches and daisies
I think we need two new sections...Azalea and Evergreen
I agree they are 'covered' but in my opinion they shouldn't be...sometimes it can take some searching through different sections to find threads about evergreens specifically.

I agree about azaleas. They really are like a world unto themselves.

 

[Clicio]

So it seems like it makes more sense to have the set be conifer/broadleaf or deciduous/evergreen since either of those cover the full spectrum.

It makes much more sense to me also. These 4 words when mixed... Well, it's not clear at all.

 

[Walter Pall]

I know that in the English language there is this constant confusion. In most other languages the scientific order is accepted:

Confers (some deciduous, some evergreen, all flowering, all fruiting, all over the world) , Broadleaf (some deciduous, some evergreen, all flowering, all fruiting, all over the world), and as the only exception the Gingko, which has his own class.

Origin wise you can say tropicals. Boreal, Mediterranean, America, European, Asian etc.. this often makes sense.

Fruiting and flowering makes no sense as all trees do this. Deciduous vs. conifers is nonsense while commonly used. Deciduous vs. evergreen makes little sense as many are both, depending on the circumstances. and besides shedding foliage or not are very different.

Tropical bonsai is an invention to let the Puerto Ricans and Florida folks also have a chance. Where do you draw the line?

In all modern scientific textbooks it is Broadleaf and Conifers. This was not the case in English textbooks until about 40 or so years ago. There they often had deciduous and evergreen. not anymore.

I know that some will hate thís, but it did annoy me from day one. and still does quite often.

 

[AlainK]

...the only exception the Gingko, which has his own class.

Ah, thank you Walter, I wanted to ask :

So where would you put:

... Ginkgo ?

And what about Larch (they're deciduous, aren't they, like a few other conifers) ? ....

 

[Kadebe]

Ah, thank you Walter, I wanted to ask :



... Ginkgo ?

And what about Larch (they're deciduous, aren't they, like a few other conifers) ? ....

Wel, I guess they are deciduous conifers

 

[0soyoung]

I know that in the English language there is this constant confusion. In most other languages the scientific order is accepted:

Confers (some deciduous, some evergreen, all flowering, all fruiting, all over the world) , Broadleaf (some deciduous, some evergreen, all flowering, all fruiting, all over the world)

The scientific order of my language is

• angiosperms = flowering plants; seeds are made in an ovary and surrounded by a fruit
  • most often described as 'deciduous' in bonsai-ese
• gymnosperms = naked seed plants; includes conifers, cycads, and ginkgo
  • gymnosperms do not flower, they express strobili.

Calling any reproductive structure a flower and any seed a fruit is obfuscation, IMO.

 

[Mikecheck123]

This constant confusion is why I stick to flowering broadleaf conifers.