Buds opening, tree said its time...

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
19,518
Likes
24,999
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
#21
I just looked at a dozen great before and afters on the Book...
Totally says this can be a wicked wicked wicked....that's x3 wicked....tree in a few years...

At that size....

You won't necessarily need or want such powerful root growth.
I think you'll get enough root growth(smaller proportional) for a small design size with just that one branch of foliage left. .

Of course.....

I wouldn't chop it till I was sure it could be ok with just that growth, maybe summer.

For what that tree will be, thats a good start for a Nebari, even that bigger root can be hidden nice with moss till it forks clean enough.

#wickedpimpstart

Sorce
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
Messages
12,766
Likes
18,282
Location
Mio Michigan
USDA Zone
4
#23
So, just swirling some ideas around in my head, after @sorce tipped my world on end, with his Sumo! comment ....

I think this tree will take at least 8-10 years to develop a good nebari, which is my main focus....

Do you think that leaving the tree tall will create a better nebari faster??...because there is more branches and foliage...?
I think maybe, this could be true....then I could have a good base to chop for...

Or...
In a year, or four, the base of the tree will be good and flat...
I could pull an Ebihara move on it....
Plus, that lower trunk developing, and maybe letting low branches run...
Could create taper, maybe....?....no?....
Ground layer it. It immediately gives you a nice flat radial root base.
That's year one.
Year two screw it to a board,plant it in a colander and chop it to height.
By the end of year two you will have chosen the branches to build a broom or single trunk tree.
Year three cut that section back and give it a root prune.
Year 4 you can put it back in a bonsai pot and start working on refinement.
Year 5 more refinement and ramification.
It's an elm. They grow fast. You can push them harder than most trees.
 
Messages
2,848
Likes
5,996
Location
Mobile, Alabama-The Heart of Dixie
USDA Zone
8-9
#24
JWI, I kinda agree with what Mike says, except the ground layering. It already has a decent nebari, maybe put it on a board at your next repotting. But I would chop it now, maybe not to sumo size, but at least half. You will be surprised how fast an elm can cover a chop, not bald cypress fast, but pretty darn fast. You could have the taper you want in a few seasons. I have an elm with that kinda bark, it is odd for a Chinese elm, all the rest have gray bark.

John
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
19,518
Likes
24,999
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
#25
You know I been thinking.......

Just because a bunch of PEOPLE say "its time" when the tree starts to open....

Doesn't Neccesarily mean that is what the tree is saying.....

Maybe the tree is saying, "it's too Damn warm in this garage".

Don't let the people speak for the tree!

Sorce
 

just.wing.it

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,321
Likes
8,345
Location
Blips and Chitz (mid MD, 6b...ish)
USDA Zone
6B
#26
JWI, I kinda agree with what Mike says, except the ground layering. It already has a decent nebari, maybe put it on a board at your next repotting. But I would chop it now, maybe not to sumo size, but at least half. You will be surprised how fast an elm can cover a chop, not bald cypress fast, but pretty darn fast. You could have the taper you want in a few seasons. I have an elm with that kinda bark, it is odd for a Chinese elm, all the rest have gray bark.

John
Thanks MM!
I got my gears turning!
 

just.wing.it

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,321
Likes
8,345
Location
Blips and Chitz (mid MD, 6b...ish)
USDA Zone
6B
#27
You know I been thinking.......

Just because a bunch of PEOPLE say "its time" when the tree starts to open....

Doesn't Neccesarily mean that is what the tree is saying.....

Maybe the tree is saying, "it's too Damn warm in this garage".

Don't let the people speak for the tree!

Sorce
Good thing I'll never have to use the garage again!
You know, my garage is considerably cooler than outside this week...
 
Last edited:

just.wing.it

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,321
Likes
8,345
Location
Blips and Chitz (mid MD, 6b...ish)
USDA Zone
6B
#28
If you really like the bark, take an airlayer off the top.
So after so me thinking time...

I want to air layer the top for sure, I can't throw away that bark!

I would like to create a small fat tree from the base, eventually....

How about some of your thoughts on where to layer??

BTW, the tree will be left to recover this year, any air layering well happen in '19.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
19,518
Likes
24,999
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
#29
I would do a quick airlayer, really deep, right above that first branch! And remove it early!

Lol!

For real......

You can throw away that bark!
It's no more useful to you than the bark on the outside of a log you throw in the fire!

I don't believe "airlayers waste time" horticulturally...

But in a case like this....

Where in 5-10 years those others won't be as good as the OG one...I think it may be a waste of your time.....as you really dont need the education it may provide, and besides that top top section....

The reat of the exit angles of the branches are blah.....and with the top you got that scar.....

By the time you get that nice you'll have found 3 better ones I reckon.

Save the soil!

Sorce
 

just.wing.it

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,321
Likes
8,345
Location
Blips and Chitz (mid MD, 6b...ish)
USDA Zone
6B
#30
I would do a quick airlayer, really deep, right above that first branch! And remove it early!

Lol!

For real......

You can throw away that bark!
It's no more useful to you than the bark on the outside of a log you throw in the fire!

I don't believe "airlayers waste time" horticulturally...

But in a case like this....

Where in 5-10 years those others won't be as good as the OG one...I think it may be a waste of your time.....as you really dont need the education it may provide, and besides that top top section....

The reat of the exit angles of the branches are blah.....and with the top you got that scar.....

By the time you get that nice you'll have found 3 better ones I reckon.

Save the soil!

Sorce
I'm too scared to do it this year, with such a major root reduction....even tho it's an elm...

It is now in fully inorganic substrate now too, I will be much more comfortable next year...
And I agree with your idea of the placement of the air layer...
Might be able to do it at that first branch, then layer the layer again further up in a couple years.

My next thought is, do I use that first branch to build off of?? It's at a pretty wide angle...
To answer my own question, I think maybe yes, I can build a small leaning canopy off of that...
 

just.wing.it

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,321
Likes
8,345
Location
Blips and Chitz (mid MD, 6b...ish)
USDA Zone
6B
#34
I decided not to trim... Might need those solar panels after this...
Originally I was gonna leave it be this year, but it growing super strong, and....it's an elm, they're weeds!
I will be chopping at the first branch after the layer is removed...and will build a squat leaner from the bottom.

@Smoke
You have any elms???
I seem to recall one... I know you like that roughly 30 degree angle to my cut 😎!
KIMG0922.JPG KIMG0923.JPG KIMG0924.JPG KIMG0925.JPG KIMG0926.JPG
KIMG0922.JPG KIMG0923.JPG KIMG0924.JPG KIMG0925.JPG KIMG0926.JPG
 

just.wing.it

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,321
Likes
8,345
Location
Blips and Chitz (mid MD, 6b...ish)
USDA Zone
6B
#36
Hope that air layer works out for you...will be a cool bonsai!
Thanks, me too!
I have never had success with an air layer yet, though those attempts were on landscape shrubs....
I put a thick layer of Sphagnum moss on the bottom and top, and the substrate is the smaller particles of lava and pumice.
 

just.wing.it

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,321
Likes
8,345
Location
Blips and Chitz (mid MD, 6b...ish)
USDA Zone
6B
#39
I decided to trim the lower portion of the tree...only because it was getting too big for its bench space.

I'll let the top run...as I think that is best for creating roots.

Have any of you guys pruned your top portion of a tree in the air layering process?

I kept the one lower shoot long because it will assist in thickening and healing after the chop...
20180611_200532.jpg 20180611_200559_Burst01.jpg 20180611_200634.jpg 20180611_201940.jpg 20180611_201957.jpg 20180611_202008_Burst01.jpg 20180611_202058.jpg
20180611_200532.jpg 20180611_200559_Burst01.jpg 20180611_200634.jpg 20180611_201940.jpg 20180611_201957.jpg 20180611_202008_Burst01.jpg 20180611_202058.jpg
 

just.wing.it

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,321
Likes
8,345
Location
Blips and Chitz (mid MD, 6b...ish)
USDA Zone
6B
#40
Month and a half after the layer was initiated....still not seeing roots in the container...maybe I need to wrap it up, to keep sun off the plastic???
Top growth is still vigorous!
 

Similar threads