Bulb pot drainage issue

[remist17]

Some of you may have read a post about me loosing trees. I lost 4 trees this year to a unexplained issue. Thanks to several people I decided to move to a turface/ pumice mix and repotted all my trees. It is a risk that I took.

While repotting I found the bulb pots I have been using was one of the main sources of my issues. The water was not draining out of the pots completely. The bottom section had standing water. So I first contributed it to my bad soil mix. So I did a test. I poured 100% turface into the pot. then put water on the turface. water came out of the bottom and I let it sit over night. The next morning I removed the soil and found standing water.

I drilled several 1/4" holes along the very bottom and the underside of the pots. I then refilled with new turface and repeated. After another night I found that it was better but the pot was still holding water.

Has anyone found this ? I have around 39 trees that are all in bulb pots ranging from 8 to 10inch. I really don't want to repot again. Any ideas to help get the water out of the pots. I even wet as far as putting a 1x1 under the corner to elevate the side to help drain.

Please give me some suggestions.

 

[Beng]

What do you mean by bulb pot can you take a picture?

Do you mean something like this http://1000bulbs.com/product/91055/...BaseShopping&gclid=CIrB8Mq_5LgCFUuk4Aod9F4Aog If so pots like this the base tends to arc inwards a bit which will leave water to pool along the bottom rim...

if that's what you're using you might want to consider getting azalea pots for your younger trees like these they come in most sizes

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-New-6-i...15021706?pt=Planters_Pots&hash=item20d526788a

for the larger trees i'm growing out I use flats like the Aflat5 in this picture. It comes in 15 by 15 inch and 17 by 17 inch. Stuewe and Sons carry's them and will ship anywhere.

http://www.stuewe.com/products/art/anderson/andersontrays.jpg

I also add a larger particle porous drainage layer to my pots but I know some say it does nothing it's always worked for me.

 

[agraham]

Are the drainage holes all on the bottom of the pots and are the pots elevated off of the surface they sit on? There is always a layer of water at the bottom of any pot because of surface tension. The larger the soil particles the thinner the layer.

 

[october]

As mentioned, some pictures of these bulb pots might help. Also, you shouldn't use 100% turface. Maybe you just did your experiment with 100% turface to check drainage. However, I would only use maybe around 30% is a bonsai mix. Since you are having drainage issues in general. It might be best to use an akadama, lava rock and pumic mix. Also, keep the particles on the larger size, depending on the tree.

Rob

 

[remist17]

Ill post photos tomorrow am. The pots are kola bulb pots. I used surface strictly for testing. My current mix is three parts Turfacemvp, pumice (stable dry) 1 part, one part bark.

I've spoke with some well respected people and all believe this combo with addition of sand would work for me

 

[october]

Ill post photos tomorrow am. The pots are kola bulb pots. I used surface strictly for testing. My current mix is three parts Turfacemvp, pumice (stable dry) 1 part, one part bark.

I've spoke with some well respected people and all believe this combo with addition of sand would work for me

I used a very similar turface based mix as you described for many years, probably 9 years. It worked well most of the time. However, I switched to the akadama, pumice and lava rock because it drained better and didn't seem to hold as much moisture. Which meant less chance of root rot. Either way, I have had good luck with both mixes. However, when you are dealing with pines, I highly recommend the akadama mix. It is just a better soil for growing pines. One reason is because you cannot repot pines often. You may find that when the turface mix stops draining, that it is not close to the time that the tree is due for a repot. Using the akadama mix might reduce the chances of an emergency repot having to be done.

Rob

 

[remist17]

Thank you for the comments.I can source mvp local and cheap. I will try and do some research on it. Luckily I have no pines. My concern is more over the pots not letting water out. I might just be finding what's normal and being nervous about root rot taking everything into account. I took photos but only have the phone tonight. Will post tomorrow

 

[Beng]

I have most of my trees in akadama pumice and lava. A few in akadama pumice lava and kiryu. And several still in akadama pumice lava and sifted pine bark. I prefer the mix with no pine bark. However I have a old kingsville and a cherry I've kept in the mix with pine bark. They've been in this mix for 8 years with no problem. They've been repotted in it 3 times. Only difference is those trees aren't watered as often. I also don't fertilize them as heavily. After 3 years the pine bark begins to break down, this doesn't cause root issues though if you're not significantly overwatering. In fact you could pot your trees in pure dirt but if you were careful with watering they'd be fine. Just back off the watering, let things dry out a but and I think your trees will thank you. Best of luck it sucks when you loose a tree, I hope the rest if your trees thrive. I think your new mix with pine bark will work fine for you if you want try a mix with no pine bark it may work even better.

 

[jkd2572]

I would just take an electric drill and drill holes at the lowest point on all the pots. I would do this with the trees still in them. I would imagine you could do this fairly easily.

 

[0soyoung]

The water was not draining out of the pots completely. The bottom section had standing water. So I first contributed it to my bad soil mix. So I did a test. I poured 100% turface into the pot. then put water on the turface. water came out of the bottom and I let it sit over night. The next morning I removed the soil and found standing water.

You do understand, don't you, that there is a saturation level for every medium. In other words, there will always be water that is not draining out of the pots completely.

The spaces between the grains are like capillary tubes. The smaller the grains of the medium, the narrower the tubes and, hence, the higher the saturation level. Water is held against the force of gravity by its surface tension and its wetting of the medium. Again, because of this, there is always a layer at the bottom of the pot that is saturated with water - even if the bottom of the pot is nothing but mesh that would just retain your medium. The saturation layer will go away by evaporation and/or because the roots of your tree have adsorbed it.

If you tip a pot that is shallower than it is wide, water will flow out until the saturation level is achieved in this orientation. So, if you are really freaked, you could tip your pots on edge after watering to reduce the amount of water that is retained (of course, you must solve the problem of keeping you soil in place while you do this). But, realistically, this is why tipping pots is a simple remedy for endless rain - water will accumulate in the low corner of the pot leaving most of your tree's roots in unsaturated medium (rotate the pot every few days).

 

[Smoke]

Could you post a picture of the pot.

I would like to see is it plastic or is it clay?

 

[Smoke]

To really do a real test, try filling the sample pot with each medium by itself, not mixed together.

test the bark seperatly the turface so on and so on. Set the pot on a wire stand above a small bucket.

Pour a measured amount of water thru the soil, say one pint. let it drip for 5 minutes useing a timer. Pour the water out of the bucket into the pint bottle and see how much comes back.

Do that for each component and then mix them together and test. Find out which filled the pint container the best and that should be the size particle you should sift to.

Now the bad news. Once you find out that the largest particles drain the fastest, you will find thats the soil that drys the fastest.

Up to two or three tablespoons of water in a pot after watering is normal. Is that what you have or more?

 

[remist17]

Hello all.
Here are the photos of the pots in question. These are plastic bulb pots which I failed to mention. It seems that the water at the bottom is some what understood and is fine. I was on the mission to stop the root rot and change over the trees to a free flowing soil. So when I saw some water reamining at the bottom I scratched my head and maybe worried to much!
SORRY

To answer some questions:
1- There is about 2-4 tabelspoons full of water when the tree is put up on wood to further drain.
2- The soil mix is 3 parts truface, 1 part pumice, 1 part bark for my elms, hornbeams and apples. My maple has a little different mix thanks to some that posted their soil mix.
3- The first set of trees have been in this mix for about 2 weeks now. They are pushing new buds and there are signs of them coming back.
4- Did a water test on the soil material as smoke noted. Pine bark being the largest drained the fastest followed by turface and then pumice. When the material was put in a press pumice had the largest amount of water squeezed out.

As the photos show I put some 1/2 x 1 wood strips under the pots. I put the trees up on the 1 inch side until the water stops flowing. I also put some holes up in the middle more .... Not sure if this will help or hurt. I know people use colanders for planting so I figure this can not be any worse than that.

 

[Poink88]

How many holes does these bulb pans have in the bottom?

If you are worried about standing water at the bottom, apply some "wick" through the bottom holes hanging the ends through the bottom holes. It will suck all the extra water and drain better.

Avoid using pure cotton, it will rot faster. Use synthetic materials if you can find it. A good source is a mop head made of synthetic blend.

Good luck!

 

[GrimLore]

Colanders...

 

[remist17]

Grimlord.
Yes I know I cant spell


Bottom of pots:
8" 4 holes
10" 8 holes.

After I was done drilling
8" 16 holes
10" 32 holes

This is not to mention the numerous ones around the sides.

 

[october]

You could add some course river sand to your mix and cut down on the turface a bit.

Rob

 

[GrimLore]

I was not correcting a typo - I was just referring to a conversation where I mentioned plastic dollar store Colanders as part of your solution. For now I would tip them all up about an 1" - 1 1/2". I was looking at a decent variety of potted plants on our back deck today thinking it would be nice to see them not "tipped" for a few days - seems they have been most of the season because of the weather.

 

[coppice]

If 'bulb pots', are green wider than tall pots. (here in after) Paper-white (or daffodil) pans. I cut holes wider and cut-in a center drain.

IMO they need this level of tinkering.

1/8th inch hardware cloth screens keep soil in.

 

[Dav4]

Slip a wooden shim onder the edge of the pots to tilt them a bit and free up any drainage holes being blocked by the wood shelf.