Bulb pot drainage issue

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
Wow interesting. I use these same exact pots and have never had an issue of watering standing at the bottom...
 

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,911
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
Wow interesting. I use these same exact pots and have never had an issue of watering standing at the bottom...

I suspect that the problem is not the pots, I too have been using them for many years with the trees I develop for sale. I have never had a problem. If you are using an organic garden soil or a garden soil from a bag in a nursery there is no telling what is going to happen. However it does bring up a point that needs to be looked at. The shallower a pot the less gravity will affect the water flow out of the soil mix.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
However it does bring up a point that needs to be looked at. The shallower a pot the less gravity will affect the water flow out of the soil mix.

I believe it is more about surface tension and water table.
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,452
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
I have one of those pots in the shed empty because it did not drain well on a solid wood surface - seemed to drain and seal the water under the pot like a vacuum. I suspect they work ok on wire racks or slate type tables if you put in holes at the base around the edge where they are indented. For me to use those I would need to raise them with lath or something.
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
Grim
I understand. I bought a few this weekend for the pots I have not repotted already :eek:



I know the soil might not be what is normal. I used a normal mix that created root rot. I do not have access to some of the other recomended components. I can get turface, stable dry easy and cheap. Under $10 for a 50 pound bag. The bark is not so easy but I found one place that carries what I am currently using. I know some will not like the soil while others will think its fine. So far it is working for what I need..... I think. Or lets put it this way for this year it is working.

I posted this just as a help for me and what I found when I tilted the pots and water ran out. I really didnt think this was good. After some very helpful post I understand a little more and maybe can accept the outcome.

I have the pots already tilted and are tilted more after the inital watering. I hope I am on the right track.
 
Last edited:

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
I have one of those pots in the shed empty because it did not drain well on a solid wood surface - seemed to drain and seal the water under the pot like a vacuum.


See now I'm wondering if this is more of a soil issue than it is a pot issue. I use these and they all sit on my deck, a solid surface. I water when needed and haven't had a single issue.
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,452
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
I have the pots already tilted and are tilted more after the inital watering. I hope I am on the right track.

That should be sufficient and if you don't like the way it looks you can raise them up with scrap wood and also get more air circulation under them.
I am guessing if your weather has been like mine that you are already seeing progress but you have not mentioned it :p
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
That should be sufficient and if you don't like the way it looks you can raise them up with scrap wood and also get more air circulation under them.
I am guessing if your weather has been like mine that you are already seeing progress but you have not mentioned it :p

One crabapple with new leaves coming out.
One elm with buds swelling.
One cork oak with new leaves.

These are just the troubled ones. The elm was in real bad shape and that one is still touchy. I think I should know in a few days if it will be ok.
I really think I am on the right path and will still need some tweaking. I have two of the original elms up on 2x4 spacers on either side of the pot so the bottom is completly off the table. These are getting air from the bottom and with the new side holes. We will see if that works better.

My original maples are still in the same soil and will repot next spring. They look good so I am not messing with them yet.

I picked up 3 new elms from Meehans on Friday and 1 Trident maple. These were the get over the 4 ones I lost. I replaced the dead ones with better stock than I had. :cool:
 

Beng

Omono
Messages
1,279
Reaction score
51
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10b
I've had trees in pots just like these for 3 years they'll be repotted next year. No problems so far. They don't seem to hold much water cause they're full of roots right now... Don't worry about a little bit it' won't cause you're roots to rot unless you're watering every day before the soils dry.
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
I've had trees in pots just like these for 3 years they'll be repotted next year. No problems so far. They don't seem to hold much water cause they're full of roots right now... Don't worry about a little bit it' won't cause you're roots to rot unless you're watering every day before the soils dry.

Ok great. Om still learning the new soil mix. Right now its wet after two days.
 

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
I am a little surprised at all the hoopla about perched water in a pot.

There is nothing wrong with water in a pot. The roots won't drown......

unless.......


There is no oxygen. Perched water in a pot in an anerobic condition will create rotted roots.

In the past I have had shohin plants that I placed on gravel filled trays for humidity throughout the day. The trays did not have drainage holes. The trays were filled with water constantly. The pots sat on the tips of the large lava I had in the trays so they were not actually in the water. The trays were about 3/4 inch deep and they are for window box planting about two feet long at Walmart.

At repotting time, I lifted one of the pots and it lifted the entire contents of the gravel from the tray. The roots had grown out of the pot and had filled up the entire tray with roots just under the gravel. I didn't even know they were there. Those trees were just suckin up the water right from the tray. Roots don't have a problem with water, they have a problem with no oxygen. That can happen in a root bound pot with no air exchange in the soil. Water logged un oxygenated soil is a disaster. Keep the soil loose and friable and good particle size and water the hell out of it.
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
Ok great information all. I appreciate the help. I gues I am just gun shy now and trying to everything "RIGHT". Which I have learned will never happen. I will see what happens and go from there.



My soil as of now is 3 parts turface MPV, 1 part stable dry (pumice) and 1 part pine bark.
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,452
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
I am a little surprised at all the hoopla about perched water in a pot.

There is nothing wrong with water in a pot. The roots won't drown......

unless.......

There is no oxygen. Perched water in a pot in an anerobic condition will create rotted roots.

That is understood the problem he "used" to have was the pots themselves not draining so the roots were just rotting away at the base of the pot which I imagine also did not smell real nice when he saved them. He also went to a far more inorganic mix and I suspect all will go much better. ;)
 

Beng

Omono
Messages
1,279
Reaction score
51
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10b
Ok great information all. I appreciate the help. I gues I am just gun shy now and trying to everything "RIGHT". Which I have learned will never happen. I will see what happens and go from there.



My soil as of now is 3 parts turface MPV, 1 part stable dry (pumice) and 1 part pine bark.

I'd decrease that to 1-2 parts turface. Are you able to find pumice and pine bark as small as the turface? I find that turface is significantly smaller, equal particle size is a big help in drainage. You could always sift your pumice to be the same size. Finer grains like turface will hold more water of course and allow less air into the root ball. Nothing wrong with your mix but if your still experimenting try a mix with 1/3 of each pumice/turface/pine bark.
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
I thought I would update this post a little.

I repotted 90% of my trees in a 4 parts turface, 1 part pumice (stable dry), 1 part pine bark mix (has some smaller sections). I used the bulb pots I had but drilled holes in the bottom and sides. I also went and got 1"x 1/2" wood strips that I sit the pots on for some extra help. The pots are on a tilt most of the time but I have not lost another tree since my first request.

Elms are doing great. I actually had to trim them back. I water every day or every other day once in the morning.

Maples are growing and seem to be ok with the soil. I water these twice a day.

Hornbeams are mix. one that had issues still have issues. I think it has some weak roots and I may loose this. The second one I bought is doing fine less the bugs eating some leaves.

cherries and privits are fine along with the junipers.
 
Last edited:

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,452
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
Good to hear! That was a little nerve wrecking for you but you really did well :) Thank you for the follow up!
 
Top Bottom