Buy the book not the tree

Benny w

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There is a saying with folks that collect coins ( yes, I'm also a coin nerd) "Buy the book not the coin" which I think is relevant to Bonsai as some of us or at least I have bought a tree when instead maybe I should have updated my library.
As a begginer I think its important to have good literature on the type/species of trees we own/work on . My favorite trees are maples and on one particular Japanese maple I have I was stuck on how to proceed until I had bought Peter Adam's book "Bonsai with Japanese Maples".
But now that I started a method described in the beggining of chapter 2 which most of you will recognize as a very basic development method. I'm kicking myself for not letting the new truck extension run which I had pruned back before I had a plan for this tree ( big rookie mistake). So anyways here we are today.
 

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Benny w

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My question is does the branch that will be the continuation of the trunk need to be grown on further or can I cut it now and focus on the second step of development?
 

Saddler

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I have a few trees in your stage and from what I’ve learned...

Can those roots be fixed with a change in angle?

What angle is best?

What about the wound healing over on the trunk?

What kind of transition should there be from the bottom to the second part?


Those are the things I would be thinking about and answering before cutting anything.
 

Benny w

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I have a few trees in your stage and from what I’ve learned...

Can those roots be fixed with a change in angle?

What angle is best?

What about the wound healing over on the trunk?

What kind of transition should there be from the bottom to the second part?


Those are the things I would be thinking about and answering before cutting anything.
I'm going to change the angle next spring when I repot. Probably will end up in a box with screen on the bottom and development will be quicker. About the wounds... they are healing. Your last question is why I started this thread because I dont know if the transition is ready yet. In the books illustrations the amount of girth shown is around the same thickness as the amount on my tree when it was cut. I would only cut before the shoot I'm pointing to in the picture above obviously to allow all the power to be focused on the new trunk extension and the bud below it which will be the 2nd branch. I'm leaning towards it's ready and by the time I go thru the steps in three years I should have the wounds healed, nice transition/taper, and with the roots I have currently to work with should be a cool tree.
Although if somebody has experience with this method and they say "No I have done this before let that extension grow more" indefinitely then I will do that
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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Hi Benny,
So I have only had a few years of maple growing, so my thoughts are my opinions etc.
On the positive notes you have a tree you are working with and Peter Adam’s book is a great reference for us noobies.
For the negatives I will try to not be too harsh.
1. My guess is your trunk girth maybe somewhere between 1/2 to 1 inch so that equates to a 6-10 inch tree height as a rough guide. So growing each new trunk section unrestricted for the next 3 years minimum, with give you better girth and more realistic tree.
2. Yes, us newbies make lots of mistakes so yep choose a new leader next spring and no pruning etc. And planting at an angle will help with trunk movement also.
3. My guess is that each new trunk section is 1/2 to 3/4 of previous trunk girth. Eg. If first trunk section is 2 inches then next trunk section is 1.5 to 1.75 inches. And as the tree grows the trunk wounds will shrink then disappear with cut paste to keep cambium moist.
4. Lastly and sadly the roots on this tree are poor. Planting in a shallow container might help but trunk wouldn’t gain girth that way. Many of the wise ones on this site will advise growing the trunks for 3-5 years minimum then GROUND LAYERING the tree much closer to where the second trunk section starts. This gives amazing horizontal root plane and I can testify that this works and is so cool seeing the result 12 months later or next repot 12-24 months.
Anyway, I think you are off to a good start with the tree and the book 👍, and buying more trees to practice on is great for the itchy fingers.
Others may have another opinion or 10, for you to read and digest.
37669206-E331-401B-80CD-4F682822805C.png
This screenshot will help show the process also.
Charles
 

sorce

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How much has the first segment thickened since it was cut?

They say a branch won't thicken until the branch above it is the same size as the branch to be thickened.

I appreciate your "buy the book" idea.

One of my Moto instructors says "upgrade the software, not the hardware."

It works for riding a bike, or buying the right coins, but unfortunately, especially in this instance with that book, it doesn't work directly for these trees.

This book is saying mint coins are the best, but showing a poor collection of marred coins.

Rather confusing.

Do you even want a tree like the one pictured?

Sorce
 

Saddler

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I'm going to change the angle next spring when I repot. Probably will end up in a box with screen on the bottom and development will be quicker. About the wounds... they are healing. Your last question is why I started this thread because I dont know if the transition is ready yet. In the books illustrations the amount of girth shown is around the same thickness as the amount on my tree when it was cut. I would only cut before the shoot I'm pointing to in the picture above obviously to allow all the power to be focused on the new trunk extension and the bud below it which will be the 2nd branch. I'm leaning towards it's ready and by the time I go thru the steps in three years I should have the wounds healed, nice transition/taper, and with the roots I have currently to work with should be a cool tree.
Although if somebody has experience with this method and they say "No I have done this before let that extension grow more" indefinitely then I will do that

Uh, you are going to leave that stump on top like it is?

I’m pretty sure the answer to your transition question is in your book.

Sorce is wrong about the thickening.
“They say a branch won't thicken until the branch above it is the same size as the branch to be thickened.”
Why isn’t every tree taper-less if that is true? There are a lot of variables that go into making a taper I am learning.
 

Smoke

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My question is does the branch that will be the continuation of the trunk need to be grown on further or can I cut it now and focus on the second step of development?
I gave you my number. When you wish, call me and bring it over. I am in the middle of yard tree pruning currently so the back yard is a mess, but the Bonsai are OK. Otherwise I am the guest speaker for the Fresno club on the first meeting, Sept. 14, bring the tree then and we can look at it.
 
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Benny w

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Hi Benny,
So I have only had a few years of maple growing, so my thoughts are my opinions etc.
On the positive notes you have a tree you are working with and Peter Adam’s book is a great reference for us noobies.
For the negatives I will try to not be too harsh.
1. My guess is your trunk girth maybe somewhere between 1/2 to 1 inch so that equates to a 6-10 inch tree height as a rough guide. So growing each new trunk section unrestricted for the next 3 years minimum, with give you better girth and more realistic tree.
2. Yes, us newbies make lots of mistakes so yep choose a new leader next spring and no pruning etc. And planting at an angle will help with trunk movement also.
3. My guess is that each new trunk section is 1/2 to 3/4 of previous trunk girth. Eg. If first trunk section is 2 inches then next trunk section is 1.5 to 1.75 inches. And as the tree grows the trunk wounds will shrink then disappear with cut paste to keep cambium moist.
4. Lastly and sadly the roots on this tree are poor. Planting in a shallow container might help but trunk wouldn’t gain girth that way. Many of the wise ones on this site will advise growing the trunks for 3-5 years minimum then GROUND LAYERING the tree much closer to where the second trunk section starts. This gives amazing horizontal root plane and I can testify that this works and is so cool seeing the result 12 months later or next repot 12-24 months.
Anyway, I think you are off to a good start with the tree and the book 👍, and buying more trees to practice on is great for the itchy fingers.
Others may have another opinion or 10, for you to read and digest.
View attachment 259719
This screenshot will help show the process also.
Charles
Your not being harsh at all except to the trees roots..lol. The roots need work but this picture doesnt do the trees roots justice. Need some grafts but poor nobody has said that. If it was a tree that was ready to show I would use the word poor.
I gave you my number. When you wish, call me and bring it over. I am in the middle of yard tree pruning currently so the back yard is a mess, but the Bonsai are OK. Otherwise I am the guest speaker for the Fresno club on the first meeting, Sept. 14, bring the tree then and we can look at it.
I will call you this afternoon. Look forward to meeting with you if not today we can set a time for tommorrow or sometime this week. In the A.M. maybe since its cooler.
 

Benny w

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Here is another pic
 

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