Camellia Hiemalis shishigashira

[Tiki]

I recently acquired a rather nice Camellia over the weekend. It was one of those love at first sight kind of deals. But just like how love has got me into trouble in the past, I may done it again.

Im recovering from a lower back injury, so as soon as I can get some help Ill get some pics of the tree to put up.

My question to the nut gallery is what kind of soil have you found these grow well in? LOADED question I know. It is already potted in a large Chinese bonsai pot. So Im probably not going to pot it in nursery can mix. I read a lot of people say not to mess with their roots

much, but then others say you can treat them like azaleas during repot. I'm going to go out on a limb and say tree health was a factor here. Ive got 10 or so gallons of Kanuma in the appropriate size for this tree, its a rather large tree as most camellias tend to be to

accommodate the flower and leaf size. Haven't poked around in the soil its in now but I expect to find pine bark, turface and lava rock..its whats popular

down here. Should I stick with the eqaul parts of w/e is in it right now or transition it into a more Kanuma/Pumice mix? I rather like the drainage I get with the Kanuma..you literally cant over water it (till it starts breaking down)

Ive read through the 7 or 9 pages of threads on BNUT that contain any refference to this plant and theres not much there..which says something to me. They are not easy trees to work with WHEN you can keep them alive. Like, its been reported they dont respond very well to

hard cut backs, and or are slow to grow.

Any tips or tricks you all may have about this tree I am all ears...and a stiff back.

Tiki

 

[Tiki]

This as good as its gonna get. No way am I picking that thing up for a better photo.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You got a nice trunk with good taper. Your have a well developed trunk, this tree is ready for refinement. Nice. I assume Valhalla is somewhere in the southeast or south central US. Zone 9 means spring where ever you are. You could repot now, or you could let it go another year, up to you. If media is draining well, you can leave it.

Kanuma, pumice, and composted fir bark would be the media blend I would choose. Though my forays into Camellia have always ended in dismal failure. Zone 5 means wintering Camellia indoors, and I never got the bugs worked out on that. So I really can not give good culture advice. My summer growth suggests they really don't need anything unique, treat them more or less like azalea as far as potting media & fertilizer goes.

For your tree, I would probably wire it out now, shape the branches with the goal of creating foliage pads, or a profile. Then let it grow, and do a pruning at some point this summer. Not too late in the year or you will eliminate next seasons bloom.

 

[Tiki]

You got a nice trunk with good taper. Your have a well developed trunk, this tree is ready for refinement. Nice. I assume Valhalla is somewhere in the southeast or south central US. Zone 9 means spring where ever you are. You could repot now, or you could let it go another year, up to you. If media is draining well, you can leave it.

Kanuma, pumice, and composted fir bark would be the media blend I would choose. Though my forays into Camellia have always ended in dismal failure. Zone 5 means wintering Camellia indoors, and I never got the bugs worked out on that. So I really can not give good culture advice. My summer growth suggests they really don't need anything unique, treat them more or less like azalea as far as potting media & fertilizer goes.

For your tree, I would probably wire it out now, shape the branches with the goal of creating foliage pads, or a profile. Then let it grow, and do a pruning at some point this summer. Not too late in the year or you will eliminate next seasons bloom.

When I said "They are not easy trees to work with WHEN you can keep them alive" I was thinking of a post you had made on this very topic. Im in 9a North Florida by the way so good guess!

I glad you you replied because you and a few others had talked about them in the past in some detail, and I was eager to hear your all thoughts on this tree. So thank you for taking the time to respond.

Yes the soil seems to drain well right now and its in the process of pushing new vegetative growth buds atm. Nice and fat ones. So though I wasnt looking to repot this year its always a good plan ahead.

Not sure I can find fir bark down here though, haven't looked for it either. But my memory doesn't seem to recall ever seeing it on the shelves of any gardening stores Ive been to. Could well sifted pine bark substitute for fir or is there something about fir

bark that makes it a better candidate than the pine bark?

Pretty much on the same page with ya on getting it moved along on the next stage here. Ill be looking for a new pot for this as well though not as high a priority as making sure the this tree is thriving, while the one the tree is in does its job. It aint a bad

pot, yet its also not a good one either.

Being my location (this past winter aside) rarely gets more than a couple hours below freezing per year, the wintering of it shouldn't be too problematic. I do have a metal frame greenhouse I move my sensitive tropicals into when it gets below 40-35* F

that is heated but only to the mid 40s at most. So Im sure I can find some room for this tree if it looks to get really cold that night. This tree to me looks worth the effort to do the bonsai two-step in and out of the greenhouse.

 

[cbroad]

Not sure I can find fir bark down here though, haven't looked for it either. But my memory doesn't seem to recall ever seeing it on the shelves of any gardening stores Ive been to.

Look in pet stores, they sell it as reptile bedding, but... it's pretty pricey, I think about $25 for approximately 1 cuft. Also maybe look at nurseries that sell orchids, it's used a lot for repotting them. Or another route would be to see if your local nursery can order some bags for you, the nursery where I work sells them in 4qt bags but we special order 4cuft bags all the time for customers.

 

[cbroad]

Another thing: pet store's products will be cleaner with less fines and more similar sized pieces where as nursery sold ones will be different sized and dusty.

 

[Tiki]

Look in pet stores, they sell it as reptile bedding, but... it's pretty pricey, I think about $25 for approximately 1 cuft. Also maybe look at nurseries that sell orchids, it's used a lot for repotting them. Or another route would be to see if your local nursery can order some bags for you, the nursery where I work sells them in 4qt bags but we special order 4cuft bags all the time for customers.

Ill look into both those recommendations. Thanks you!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

When I said "They are not easy trees to work with WHEN you can keep them alive" I was thinking of a post you had made on this very topic. Im in 9a North Florida by the way so good guess!

I glad you you replied because you and a few others had talked about them in the past in some detail, and I was eager to hear your all thoughts on this tree. So thank you for taking the time to respond.

Yes the soil seems to drain well right now and its in the process of pushing new vegetative growth buds atm. Nice and fat ones. So though I wasnt looking to repot this year its always a good plan ahead.

Not sure I can find fir bark down here though, haven't looked for it either. But my memory doesn't seem to recall ever seeing it on the shelves of any gardening stores Ive been to. Could well sifted pine bark substitute for fir or is there something about fir

bark that makes it a better candidate than the pine bark?

Pretty much on the same page with ya on getting it moved along on the next stage here. Ill be looking for a new pot for this as well though not as high a priority as making sure the this tree is thriving, while the one the tree is in does its job. It aint a bad

pot, yet its also not a good one either.

Being my location (this past winter aside) rarely gets more than a couple hours below freezing per year, the wintering of it shouldn't be too problematic. I do have a metal frame greenhouse I move my sensitive tropicals into when it gets below 40-35* F

that is heated but only to the mid 40s at most. So Im sure I can find some room for this tree if it looks to get really cold that night. This tree to me looks worth the effort to do the bonsai two-step in and out of the greenhouse.

Nice. Most Camellia actually prefer to have a series of light frosts in middle of winter. The flower buds won't get damaged if unopened down into the upper or middle 20's F, so you probably never have to do the 2 step dance, unless you get an unusually early, or unusually late frost occuring while the Camellia is in active growth. Your zone is perfect for Camellia.

Orchid suppliers usually have a good grade of fir bark, and some will carry a higher end pine bark also. The pine bark I'm thinking of is Orchiata - which is pine bark from Pinus radiata, imported from New Zealand. Orchiata is a bit expensive, but it lasts a long time. For bonsai I usually use the douglas fir bark, which is generally sold as ''fir bark'', without ever mentioning that it is really douglas fir bark. There are a couple large orchid growers near Apopka. Spend some time on Google, there is bound to be an orchid grower near you that would sell bark. EFG in DelRay Beach is a group owned by friends of mine. If you can't find any local, you can mail order, I use First Ray's Orchid Supply as my ''go to'' for mail order orchid supplies. Their bark will be cheaper than the little bags from the pet shops. http://firstrays.com/

I know I have rattled on in the past about Camellias, especially about looking for species and hybrids with smaller leaves and finer branching. Since I failed with my attempts to keep them going I have decided to back down and not play the ''Camellia Expert'' as my theoretical knowledge did not result in practical, real world survival.

Hope that helps
Leo

 

[Shima]

How fortunate to find this material! We see very few Camellia bonsai. And although there are plenty here that have become trees, finding a branch with any movement to layer is rare. I have a few potted up but they are very slow growing. What also interests me about Camellia bonsai is that they were a favorite of Tokugawa Ieyasu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_Ieyasu. A search on Internet Bonsai Club forum will show some very nice examples along with comments from Leo, me and others. http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/forum