Can a lignified branch put out a bud in spots that were/are *not* nodes?

[SU2]

For instance, if I'm trying to grow-out branches to thicken, cut-back, thicken, repeat....when I grow-out that branch initially, let it get 3-4' long and thick at the base, when it's time to cut - can I cut *lower than* where the first node was? Or is the prune-back distance always limited to where the first node resides?

I'm asking not just out of curiosity in general but because of trying to know what to be expecting in terms of size when I do cut-back, not only for knowing how-far I can go but also, if I knew I couldn't cut-back further than the first node, I'd certainly be more careful about growth rates ie doing my best to promote short internodes - but if that's irrelevant because I can prune-back into the shoot below that first node, then internode length isn't a big factor when it comes to developing branches!

Thanks a ton for any thoughts on this!!

 

[Paradox]

Generally no.

You promote short internodes by not letting them get long in the first place.

We do this on maples by pinching growth after the first set of leaves. On pines by pinching candles in half in the spring.

You can not shorten nodes that are already long. This usually involves pruning back and starting over to get short nodes.

 

[Vin]

It depends on the species of the tree as well.

 

[Paradox]

It depends on the species of the tree as well.

Yes, forgot to mention that.
Thanks Vin

Is there a particular species you're thinking of?

 

[Vin]

Azalea, Crepe Myrtle, Bottlebrush, Privet off the top of my head.

 

[Starfox]

Bottlebrush for sure, they love to bud all over the shop. Bougies too I'm forever rubbing off buds and there is no here or there they just sprout.
Myrtaceae in general are good at it.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Elm?

 

[BeebsBonsai]

I had an elm that sprouted all along the trunk, at no particular rhyme or reason. But I believe for elms it is species based. Mine was a Hokkaido Elm and it really pushed buds from anywhere.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Generally no.

You promote short internodes by not letting them get long in the first place.

We do this on maples by pinching growth after the first set of leaves. On pines by pinching candles in half in the spring.

You can not shorten nodes that are already long. This usually involves pruning back and starting over to get short nodes.

So, when people say, just let it grow and grow strong, don't pinch, don't prune for now, you would say that is not the best advice? I have often thought about that problem. Balancing the rapid development, with the ability to use and push back some of that development to use for the final product. Also, do you not candle prune year that you repot a black pine? I know it's off-topic but I figure it relates.

 

[Paradox]

So, when people say, just let it grow and grow strong, don't pinch, don't prune for now, you would say that is not the best advice? I have often thought about that problem. Balancing the rapid development, with the ability to use and push back some of that development to use for the final product. Also, do you not candle prune year that you repot a black pine? I know it's off-topic but I figure it relates.

No that's two different things.

You have to pinch maple in the spring to get short internodes.

This is usually on trees that have reached the desired trunk size and are in the branch development and ramification stage. Any branches you are trying to develop on a maple need to be pinched in the spring.

With pines we pinch only the very strong candles to slow them down and keep those internodes short. That is only on single flush pines. Two flush pines we let grow because we are cutting those candles later

You don't pinch junipers. Let them grow and cut back.

 

[Paradox]

Azalea, Crepe Myrtle, Bottlebrush, Privet off the top of my head.

Add ficus, and smoke tree to that list

 

[cbroad]

@SU2
This ability to back bud where there is no node is called an "adventitious" bud. Not too many species can do this, I'm pretty sure crapes and privets can.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Q: Are epicormic buds/ shoots different from the topic?

 

[Paradox]

Q: Are epicormic buds/ shoots different from the topic?

I believe those are adventitious buds.
Most conifers dont have them.

 

[Vin]

I'm pretty sure epicormic shoots appear at the cut site.

 

[Paradox]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicormic_shoot

 

[Vin]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicormic_shoot

When in doubt, wiki-out.

 

[GrimLore]

I'm pretty sure crapes and privets can.

Spot on with Crepes - we knock them down LOW on March 1st here. They come back with back budding to the base and require another cut of the new growth in the Spring otherwise the branches get so long at bloom they hang to the ground. Once the Spring growth is four nodes cut them back to two and the Crepe will toss new groth and blooms it can support properly.

Grimmy

 

[PaulH]

Also olives.

 

[SU2]

Generally no.

You promote short internodes by not letting them get long in the first place.

We do this on maples by pinching growth after the first set of leaves. On pines by pinching candles in half in the spring.

You can not shorten nodes that are already long. This usually involves pruning back and starting over to get short nodes.

This is why I was thinking it made sense to pinch a bougie of mine's growth sooner than later, as the internodes drastically stretch as the branch lengthens.... kind of sucks to think that I can't cut-back any shoots before first nodes, they're pretty damn long in a lot of important spots :/ But, if I can let it lignify and then cut it at 2-4", usually under the first node, I'd be all set!!