Barry
Yamadori
I have been working on this tree for over a decade and have yet to find out what cultivar of Chamaecyparis it is.
Can anyone help with identifying the cultivar?
- Thread starter Barry
- Start date
cbroad
Omono
Looks almost Boulevard Cypress-ish. Does it shed a lot of the interior foliage, and look really brown on the inside?
cbroad
Omono
If it's a true dwarf cypress, it could be Baby Blue Sawara cypress; I have at least one maybe two (can't read the tag on the second anymore). These have more scale like foliage and less needle like. These are still chamaecyparis pisifera like the Boulevard.
cbroad
Omono
Here's my baby blue
Barry
Yamadori
close but not quite the same. I have a baby blue also the foliage on this one is less blue and tighter. they are growing with the same conditions so its not light, soil or watering.
clipped a piece of the baby blue and you can see the difference.
clipped a piece of the baby blue and you can see the difference.
cbroad
Omono
I would search Iseli Nursery, a lot of the country's weird dwarf conifers come from them. Also maybe check Monrovia's website; the tag on one of mine is from there.
You ruled out Boulevard cypress? I'm thinking it's definitely a pisifera of some sort.
You ruled out Boulevard cypress? I'm thinking it's definitely a pisifera of some sort.
cbroad
Omono
Here's a link from Iseli nursery, maybe one of these are them?
https://www.iselinursery.com/?s=Blue+pisifera
https://www.iselinursery.com/?s=Blue+pisifera
Crazy Diamond
Omono
Pretty cool tree! love that blue cryptomeria-like-foliage, to me its some pisifera cultivar.. here you can search for pisifera cultivars Chamaecyparis pisifera, american conifer society
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Why do you need to know? Won't make much difference...
Atom#28
Chumono
Whatever it is, its really beautiful
Barry
Yamadori
Don't really "need to know" just interested.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
No one "needs" to know what they are growing but everyone wants to know.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
That's a foemina!
Barry
Yamadori
Im sure its not, really soft foliage. I had some foeminas which I had to get rid of. needle junipers give me an allergic reaction when i work with them.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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Your problem with not knowing what you have is an issue that has driven me crazy for years. There is NO WAY to identify cultivars accurately from photographs. Especially with popular species where hundreds of cultivars have been made an named.
The solution? No matter how cheap - do not purchase plants without proper labels. You will never be able to "Figure it out Later" with any accuracy.
Second, always label your plants, and keep labels fresh. I write with pencil on plastic tags, as the pencil will fade over time, but it seldom disappears entirely. Regularly replace old labels with new labels. A plastic tag is good for maybe 5 years. NEVER use magic marker, as magic markers have ink that tends to fade completely and seemingly all at once. One minute you can read the label fine, next year you notice the label is as blank as it was when new. No clue to what was written. At least with pencil, the pressure required leaves a scratch in the plastic that you might be able to read in the right light.
So protect your labels. Make fresh labels every few years to make sure you do not loose the provenance or pedigree of your trees. You go through effort to keep your AKA or AKC papers for your pedigree pooch, you need to do the same for your trees if you want to retain the "value add on" of the provenance of your trees.
In bonsai pedigree is not important, it is only the appearance of the final tree on the bench in the show. However, some cultivars are superior to others in their growing traits. Chaenomeles 'Chojubai' is a cultivar of flowering quince that at age over 25 years begins to develop a corky bark. This bark does not show on a young 'Chojubai'. THere are several cultivars of Chaenomeles that have similar leaves and flowers to 'Chojubai', for example 'Hime' looks nearly identical to a young 'Chojubai'. But 'Hime' will never develop the thick corky bark, and if you buy a young Chaenomeles, it will take 25 years or more to figure out if it is a cutting of 'Chojubai' or 'Hime'. People pay extra to get 'Chojubai', where I have never seen 'Hime' cost more than $25, even for moderately mature plants.
So in terms of sales, and or hybridizing pedigree counts.
In terms of appearance on your own bench. It really don't matter what the cultivar is.
It is disreputable to have a no name cultivar, make a guess at its identity, and then sell it to someone without being clear that the provenance, the pedigree, is bogus. So once the label is lost, there is no going back and ''re-creating'' a cultivar name. It simply becomes labelled as the generic form of its species. Guessed at names should never be perpetuated through propagation. If I propagate or sell a "lost tag" maple, or orchid or any other plant. It gets sold as "lost tag" it does not get sold as what ever guess I make.
The solution? No matter how cheap - do not purchase plants without proper labels. You will never be able to "Figure it out Later" with any accuracy.
Second, always label your plants, and keep labels fresh. I write with pencil on plastic tags, as the pencil will fade over time, but it seldom disappears entirely. Regularly replace old labels with new labels. A plastic tag is good for maybe 5 years. NEVER use magic marker, as magic markers have ink that tends to fade completely and seemingly all at once. One minute you can read the label fine, next year you notice the label is as blank as it was when new. No clue to what was written. At least with pencil, the pressure required leaves a scratch in the plastic that you might be able to read in the right light.
So protect your labels. Make fresh labels every few years to make sure you do not loose the provenance or pedigree of your trees. You go through effort to keep your AKA or AKC papers for your pedigree pooch, you need to do the same for your trees if you want to retain the "value add on" of the provenance of your trees.
In bonsai pedigree is not important, it is only the appearance of the final tree on the bench in the show. However, some cultivars are superior to others in their growing traits. Chaenomeles 'Chojubai' is a cultivar of flowering quince that at age over 25 years begins to develop a corky bark. This bark does not show on a young 'Chojubai'. THere are several cultivars of Chaenomeles that have similar leaves and flowers to 'Chojubai', for example 'Hime' looks nearly identical to a young 'Chojubai'. But 'Hime' will never develop the thick corky bark, and if you buy a young Chaenomeles, it will take 25 years or more to figure out if it is a cutting of 'Chojubai' or 'Hime'. People pay extra to get 'Chojubai', where I have never seen 'Hime' cost more than $25, even for moderately mature plants.
So in terms of sales, and or hybridizing pedigree counts.
In terms of appearance on your own bench. It really don't matter what the cultivar is.
It is disreputable to have a no name cultivar, make a guess at its identity, and then sell it to someone without being clear that the provenance, the pedigree, is bogus. So once the label is lost, there is no going back and ''re-creating'' a cultivar name. It simply becomes labelled as the generic form of its species. Guessed at names should never be perpetuated through propagation. If I propagate or sell a "lost tag" maple, or orchid or any other plant. It gets sold as "lost tag" it does not get sold as what ever guess I make.
Barry
Yamadori
Thanks Leo- This tree was started 15 years ago from one of a few cuttings taken from a neighbors garden. He didn't even know it was a chamaecyparis let alone the cultivar. So no tags to begin with.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I understand. I have my own collection of trees with labels that say things like - lost tag, cultivar identity unknown. Chaenomeles unknown hybrid, and so on. We can try and get you as far as genus, maybe even species if it flowers or puts out cones. But we will never be able to get to the cultivar level. That just can't be done with photos. And DNA databases for plants are pretty thin, so even a DNA test likely won't tell you anything, because there is no standard to compare it too.
But genus, Chamaecyparis, and probably species can be figured out from photos.
But genus, Chamaecyparis, and probably species can be figured out from photos.
BonsaiDawg
Yamadori
Pipe down Leo, it is "disreputable to have a no name cultivar." Yea, say you??? LOL. You sound like a very old stick in the mud. Lighten up old man.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,338
- Reaction score
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It is disreputable to SELL a plant of unknown or lost tag provenance under the guessed at name, as IF it was the verified name. This is a form of fraud.
Nothing wrong with owning or selling "lost tag" or unknown cultivar trees if they are labeled as "lost tag" or unknown cultive
Just re-read my earlier post, don't give me grief.
