Can Chinese elms be 'encouraged' to backbud in a specific spot?

[Soup Dragon]

Chinese elms bud furiously at this time of year. Is there any way that I can encourage a bud to appear where I want it on a branch, like nicking the bark to create a small wound or something? I'm getting buds everywhere except where I want them.

 

[Ohmy222]

I have found drilling a hole or making a small hollow seems to work quite a bit. I do it on (or for) roots too.

 

[Shibui]

Interrupting the flow of sap can stimulate dormant buds to grow. A single cut right down through the bark to the wood and across the branch/trunk is the usual recommendation. The cut temporarily interrupts the sap flow long enough to get buds started but will heal up without leaving any other sign and does not do any permanent damage. The buds should form on the downhill (root) side of any cut.
From experience this method does not always work. I eventually had to resort to grafting a branch on one of mine.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Interrupting the flow of sap can stimulate dormant buds to grow. A single cut right down through the bark to the wood and across the branch/trunk is the usual recommendation. The cut temporarily interrupts the sap flow long enough to get buds started but will heal up without leaving any other sign and does not do any permanent damage. The buds should form on the downhill (root) side of any cut.
From experience this method does not always work. I eventually had to resort to grafting a branch on one of mine.

You're saying a cut on top of a branch will put a bud on the bottom of the branch?

 

[Bezalel Nebari]

Chinese elms bud furiously at this time of year. Is there any way that I can encourage a bud to appear where I want it on a branch, like nicking the bark to create a small wound or something? I'm getting buds everywhere except where I want them.

Foliar sprays with kelp stops apically dominant growth and forces lateral branching / budding. Here is a short 1 minute video that explains uses for kelp:

Ian Hunter talked with Ryan Neil on the Asymmetry podcast about this too. I imagine it would increase your chances of getting more buds forming further back on your branches.

 

[Shibui]

You're saying a cut on top of a branch will put a bud on the bottom of the branch?

No.
A cut on top of the branch may cause a bud to sprout on the trunk side of the cut just behind the cut (on the top of the branch). A cut on the side of the branch may give a bud or buds on the trunk side of the cut (in this case on the side of the branch)
Imagine the sap flowing up and down in pipes along the trunk and branches. Cut one of the pipes and stop the flow. Buds will grow from near the cut end of the pipe coming up from the roots.

 

[Soup Dragon]

I have found drilling a hole or making a small hollow seems to work quite a bit. I do it on (or for) roots too.

Many thanks. It's the weekend, so guess what I will be doing today.

 

[Soup Dragon]

Interrupting the flow of sap can stimulate dormant buds to grow. A single cut right down through the bark to the wood and across the branch/trunk is the usual recommendation. The cut temporarily interrupts the sap flow long enough to get buds started but will heal up without leaving any other sign and does not do any permanent damage. The buds should form on the downhill (root) side of any cut.
From experience this method does not always work. I eventually had to resort to grafting a branch on one of mine.

Great. This is what I was hoping for. If it doesn't work I'll grow out a thin branch to use for grafting. I assume that grafting can be done at any time in the growing season.

 

[Soup Dragon]

Foliar sprays with kelp stops apically dominant growth and forces lateral branching / budding. Here is a short 1 minute video that explains uses for kelp:

Ian Hunter talked with Ryan Neil on the Asymmetry podcast about this too. I imagine it would increase your chances of getting more buds forming further back on your branches.

Thank you for this. I had never heard of this product or technique before.

 

[Shibui]

Approach grafting can be done any time of year. It relies on both parts being supported until a graft forms so can take months or years if necessary.
Obviously approach graft will happen much quicker if done when the tree is active and growing so spring and early summer is usually recommended.

 

[cmeg1]

Thank you for this. I had never heard of this product or technique before.

Also fulvic acid with the kelp works wonders as it transpirts the kelp directly into cell ions in as little as 4 hours as it is a low molecular weight humic substance which is excellant carrier of minerals and plant elements because it passes through cell membranes so easily.
5:2 ratio fulvic acid powder/kelp powder.
I get backbuds on 2” branches.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

No.
A cut on top of the branch may cause a bud to sprout on the trunk side of the cut just behind the cut (on the top of the branch). A cut on the side of the branch may give a bud or buds on the trunk side of the cut (in this case on the side of the branch)
Imagine the sap flowing up and down in pipes along the trunk and branches. Cut one of the pipes and stop the flow. Buds will grow from near the cut end of the pipe coming up from the roots.

Thanks. A further question if I may.
Will the cut in any way put the bud in a position?
Like will a cut on side tend to put the bud also on the side?

And, by "cut" do you mean just a cut ...into.. wood and not a cut ...off?

 

[Bezalel Nebari]

Thank you for this. I had never heard of this product or technique before.

Yeah I just started using kelp. I use Kelpak Liquid Seaweed. I think that @cmeg1 uses the product in that video, but I haven't tried it.

 

[Shibui]

Thanks. A further question if I may.
Will the cut in any way put the bud in a position?
Like will a cut on side tend to put the bud also on the side?

And, by "cut" do you mean just a cut ...into.. wood and not a cut ...off?

The technique should stimulate buds just below the cut so if you cut on the side of the branch you should get buds on that side. If you cut across the top of the branch chances are any buds will be on top of the branch - if any form. This technique has not always been successful here.
The cut is just a single slice down through the bark to the wood underneath. Hold the knife at right angles to the ranch. Push down and cut through the bark until you reach wood underneath. Rock the knife back and forth so the cut extends maybe half way round the branch. Not intended to cut off the entire branch though that will almost certainly produce buds all round the end of the cut and may be an option if your branch is still reasonably small. You have not shown us the tree you are talking about yet so I'm just giving theory rather than recommendations specific to your tree.

 

[M. Frary]

I've found that when an elm is really cranking out growth a good hard pruning will make them bud all over.
Giving you all kinds of new branch opportunities.

 

[Shibui]

I've found that when an elm is really cranking out growth a good hard pruning will make them bud all over.
Giving you all kinds of new branch opportunities.

That's one of the reasons for asking for a photo. Initially just took it as stated that it needs an alternative method but then started thinking that many are frightened of pruning properly. Pruning is often the best method to overcome a range of problems.

 

[M. Frary]

many are frightened of pruning properly

Being squeamish could be the problem.
You are very right.
It's daunting for newer people to go cutting things off of trees.
I've gotten to the point I need to hold back because I found I might have a heavy hand with the cutters.

 

[Soup Dragon]

That's one of the reasons for asking for a photo. Initially just took it as stated that it needs an alternative method but then started thinking that many are frightened of pruning properly. Pruning is often the best method to overcome a range of problems.

Here are the photos that I took yesterday. You can see from the first photo that the lower two branches have gaps where I could really use some secondary branches. Despite many seasons of growth, no buds have ever appeared where I want them. That's why I was looking for alternative ideas.

You can see that I also pruned very hard yesterday. I am not afraid to do that with elms. In fact, this is my "practice tree". It is not much to look at, but I use it to try stuff out. Next up for this guy is a thread graft and a ground layer.

 

[Shibui]

I can see the areas you are worried about. The new cuts are just where I would have pruned and I would expect lots of new buds to fill out the branches. Have you tried this sort of pruning before? As M. Frary just said, often this sort of pruning will cause lots of buds on the branch below, especially if the tree is healthy and well fed.
hard to tell at this stage of growth but this looks a lot like the variety I know as 'Catlin' Over here my catlins do not ramify very well. They love to grow long, unbranched new shoots. Regular pruning as they grow is the only way to make them branch out. If that's what this one is then you may always struggle to get full branches. Let's see what response you get to the pruning.

 

[Soup Dragon]

I can see the areas you are worried about. The new cuts are just where I would have pruned and I would expect lots of new buds to fill out the branches. Have you tried this sort of pruning before? As M. Frary just said, often this sort of pruning will cause lots of buds on the branch below, especially if the tree is healthy and well fed.
hard to tell at this stage of growth but this looks a lot like the variety I know as 'Catlin' Over here my catlins do not ramify very well. They love to grow long, unbranched new shoots. Regular pruning as they grow is the only way to make them branch out. If that's what this one is then you may always struggle to get full branches. Let's see what response you get to the pruning.

Maybe not quite this drastically, so maybe I'll get a good response this time around. I'll update in 6 weeks or so. Many thanks for your help.