Can I add anything (hydrogen peroxide?) to stagnant rainwater to make it usable?

[SU2]

I can't find the thread where @M. Frary mentions adding it to a well to increase oxygen but anyways I'm in a situation where I've got a really bad rain-water setup consisting of a couple ~30gal rubbermaids and a ~50gal wheelbarrow. They fill-up entirely from a normal rain-storm (not even gutter-directed, just large roof surface-area and I have them under the drip-line/eave)

Problem is that, after a day like today, I'll have 100gal+ of good, 4.7pH (tap is 8pH here!) that I like to mix with my tap-water to bring the pH down, but I can't use it that quickly so all I can think to do is, every time I go outside, I just stir them up (trying to keep it from going stagnant / anoxic)

My understanding is that hydrogen peroxide would be useful here, doing the things I want and then breaking-down / becoming inert, hoping for confirmation and/or other tips/suggestions! Will be getting a proper acid to mix w/ my tap-water soon enough, am just stuck at the point where it seems phosphoric-acid based products are all that people use, and I reallly don't want to add phosphorous to my containers.....have heard things like lemon juice but never heard confirmation (from someone trustworthy!) for any acid besides phosphoric :/

Thanks for any guidance on this

 

[0soyoung]

If you are just worried about gasses, specifically oxygen, what you need is bubbler = a thing that blows air down a tube into the bottom of the barrel. Such little gizmos are standard equipment for aquariums (fish tanks), though you may need a bit more tygon and a tubing coupler.

If you have a bacterial problem too, chlorine is the standard remedy (i.e., it is in your tap water). Peroxide should also work to address this. But, just for bonsai watering, I doubt it is necessary. Were you intending to imbibe it, yet.

 

[cmeg1]

I use rainwater wholeheartedly without testing its ph.
I would use the raingutter and rig up a few sealed barrels with rainwater diverter in the downspout.That way when they are full it goes back down the downspout.
Mine are sealed barrels and I have Gutterguards made by Gutterglove on the gutters for screening.
Unless you have no trees,perhaps screening methods are not a neccessity.
I guess there are other option, but I would avoid overflowing water at the foudation of a home.I get 150 gallons of water just from a 1/4” or so of rain.

 

[SU2]

If you are just worried about gasses, specifically oxygen, what you need is bubbler = a thing that blows air down a tube into the bottom of the barrel. Such little gizmos are standard equipment for aquariums (fish tanks), though you may need a bit more tygon and a tubing coupler.

If you have a bacterial problem too, chlorine is the standard remedy (i.e., it is in your tap water). Peroxide should also work to address this. But, just for bonsai watering, I doubt it is necessary. Were you intending to imbibe it, yet.

Honestly I'm not able to specify what I'm worried about, it's the entire myriad things that would create 'stagnant' water- bacteria/fungi, anoxic enviro, etc, although that latter one I'm not so sure I should be worried about, as I'm thoroughly disturbing them like twice a day so doubt they're getting anaerobic very much but can't be sure (do you think that 2-3x daily disturbances/mixings are insufficient here?) Will have a bubbler soon enough as I've got someone bringing me a 50gal rainbarrel that I'll be outfitting myself so will get the gear then, that could be a couple weeks before it's done though so I guess I'm just thinking of the water in my tubs at, say, day 4 after a rain, if I've been disturbing them 2-3x daily are they still ok on their own? With hydrogen peroxide I imagine I'd be able to greatly lengthen this time, I wasn't thinking of using it for its antibacterial properties but for its oxygenation.. though now that I think of it the bacterial thing is probably a bigger benefit, considering I'm perturbing the water so frequently! (I don't use the crud that's in the tubs, like when I go to use some I'll spray the hose in it to disturb it fully and then use it 10min later once the solids have settled-down to the bottom again, the bottom 10% of the tubs gets used on in-ground stuff!)

Would have no idea how to approach using hydrogen perox this way, I can go get a bunch of the 3% solution but have no clue how much I'd add (like on a per-gallon basis to treat the water)

Would be interested in hearing thoughts on whether I should stop using such water at day 2, day 4, etc, I've no idea if it's really just good for a day or two (despite interventions) or if it's good for weeks with intervention!

 

[SU2]

I use rainwater wholeheartedly without testing its ph.
I would use the raingutter and rig up a few sealed barrels with rainwater diverter in the downspout.That way when they are full it goes back down the downspout.
Mine are sealed barrels and I have Gutterguards made by Gutterglove on the gutters for screening.
Unless you have no trees,perhaps screening methods are not a neccessity.
I guess there are other option, but I would avoid overflowing water at the foudation of a home.I get 150 gallons of water just from a 1/4” or so

Dude- GREAT setup!! That's what I'm going for once I get my 50gal (it's that shape), unfortunately I don't have gutters in the back of my house (and can't imagine putting it out front, maybe I'll have to if I can't install a gutter out back- something I'd be keen to do but I rent so unsure how the owner would feel about me messing with the eave, it's just too-easy for amateurs to cause problems messing w/ eaves/gutters and he has no clue of how good/bad I am at that type of thing)

You say you don't know the pH, it's a quick google for most counties but, in general, it's in the 4's (I've got a higher 4.7pH here in FL, MA has the most acidic rainwater this side of the mississippi(sp?) at 4.1 or 4.2pH), obviously though it's what plants evolved to so is certainly 'best' in a way, you mention not screening- honestly I'd screen even if my roof didn't get leaves on it (I have large Oaks), there's too-much roof-debris and stuff that the rain brings down, honestly I've been toying with ideas (for my upcoming larger barrel) of an in-line charcoal/carbon-type filter, and would certainly have at least 2 levels/grades of screening for incoming water! This setup would be the ideal, have an always-on air-bubbler.....am jealous of your setup, can't wait to do this

How long do you consider that water good? If today was the last rain of the year for you and you'd filled your barrels, am unsure how large a garden you have but how long would you consider the water 'good'?

Thanks for the reply & pics, what a fantastic setup! So eager to have my own

 

[GrimLore]

Dude- GREAT setup!!

There are a couple of things @cmeg1 has shown here you might be able to implement;

First - His barrels are covered, closed, and you cannot see though them. That stops airborne "things" from creating problems, coupled with sun.
Second - that overflow protection could simply be a PVC pipe near the top of the barrel and divert the access anywhere you choose.
Third - some type if filter material like mentioned would stop larger debris from entering the container if the top was modified a bit and the plastic mesh attached over the water entry.

Far from perfect but could be done nicely and not expensive while being portable.

.4 parts per million is the standard use of chlorine in water distribution, not a lot by any means and probably is not needed for your use anyways. The plants won't care about it being potable for human consumption, they just need it to flow by roots dragging air and nutrients behind it. As for what you have now it sounds like you are adding treated water anyways so there will be some protection in that method. If the way it looks after a few days bothers you as is you have a easy solution too. Simply tip the containers over and rinse with a hose!

I have said all that to bring up this point - The same water you are not needing to worry about is watering everything else alive around you!

Grimmy

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I worked on the Federal acid rain program for 10 years and the National Water Quality Assessment Program for 20 and rainwater is probalbly better for you plants than tapwater, excepting the low pH and mercury if you’re downwind from a coal fired power plant. I have a rain barrel set up near my plants and I water straight from the barrel. The organics that get in as a result of small particluates from my gutter probalby add to the nutrient value—think leaf tea.

 

[cmeg1]

Dude- GREAT setup!! That's what I'm going for once I get my 50gal (it's that shape), unfortunately I don't have gutters in the back of my house (and can't imagine putting it out front, maybe I'll have to if I can't install a gutter out back- something I'd be keen to do but I rent so unsure how the owner would feel about me messing with the eave, it's just too-easy for amateurs to cause problems messing w/ eaves/gutters and he has no clue of how good/bad I am at that type of thing)

You say you don't know the pH, it's a quick google for most counties but, in general, it's in the 4's (I've got a higher 4.7pH here in FL, MA has the most acidic rainwater this side of the mississippi(sp?) at 4.1 or 4.2pH), obviously though it's what plants evolved to so is certainly 'best' in a way, you mention not screening- honestly I'd screen even if my roof didn't get leaves on it (I have large Oaks), there's too-much roof-debris and stuff that the rain brings down, honestly I've been toying with ideas (for my upcoming larger barrel) of an in-line charcoal/carbon-type filter, and would certainly have at least 2 levels/grades of screening for incoming water! This setup would be the ideal, have an always-on air-bubbler.....am jealous of your setup, can't wait to do this

How long do you consider that water good? If today was the last rain of the year for you and you'd filled your barrels, am unsure how large a garden you have but how long would you consider the water 'good'?

Thanks for the reply & pics, what a fantastic setup! So eager to have my own

This is my first Spring at the new place.First time with rain barrels too.
I have about 20 pre-bonsai and propagating stock in 8” bulb pans.When things get growing ,I could see myself using maybe 5-7 gallons a day.These are 30 gallon drums I get from work( the white ones are my set-up).
I have 5 total,so roughly a month or more of water.Even heavy fog will give me about 12 gallons of water!
Honestly,I imagine there will be some green on the inside of the drums eventually,but I think it be fine.I was more concerned with mosquitos.They will have to fly down my gutter to get into the water.
Usually when rain is predicted I drain a few barrels into the yard...and not to mention watering newly planted flowers and landscape trees.
I would think even pond water is good for bonsai.
Thanks for the compliment!

 

[GrimLore]

I was more concerned with mosquitos.

Highly unlikely unless the water sits unused and uncovered in these parts for an extended hot spell, let's say 2 weeks of 85F plus... On a bright note there is a safe solution if needed sold at big box stores, etc... It is so safe you can and farmers do toss into water troughs when needed. I have used it in Fountains with great success and pretty simple. Wrap one in an old sock and tightly tie closed with a rock in it to hold it down in the water, cut off the excess sock and drop it in



Grimmy

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Peroxide lowers the pH quite a lot. And it does act as an oxidizer, even to roots.
Bubblers are great.

To be honest, i've been watering with stagnant rainwater for 15 years now, and it's never been a problem to me. Sure, the algae suck sometimes and clog everything.. But that's about it.
PH= 5.7-6.5 around here after standing for a while.
I have added a mosquito net to the top to try and prevent those from finding the best possible home.

 

[sparklemotion]

Honestly I'm not able to specify what I'm worried about, it's the entire myriad things that would create 'stagnant' water- bacteria/fungi, anoxic enviro, etc, although that latter one I'm not so sure I should be worried about, as I'm thoroughly disturbing them like twice a day so doubt they're getting anaerobic very much but can't be sure (do you think that 2-3x daily disturbances/mixings are insufficient here?) ...

Would be interested in hearing thoughts on whether I should stop using such water at day 2, day 4, etc, I've no idea if it's really just good for a day or two (despite interventions) or if it's good for weeks with intervention!

@SU2, I love how much thought you put into this stuff, but like the fertilizer rabbit hole that we went down, it seems like you are starting without a proper definition of the problem that you're trying to solve. Are you aware of a cautionary tale about someone watering plants with stagnant rain barrel water and causing harm? Or is this more of a "I wouldn't want to drink it, so neither should my plants" type of thing?

I don't have a rain barrel right now, but when I did, it sat mostly full for most of the summer. No bubbler, a cover with screen holes small enough to keep out leaves, but not mosquitoes. We handled the mosquitoes with a 25 cent feeder goldfish from PetSmart. Goldfish are hardy, but not bullet proof either. If the water was so bad that the goldfish died, *maybe* I'd think about not putting it on my plants (but then again, maybe not, some of the stuff that kills fish in tanks -- nitrates/nitrites -- is what plants crave).

 

[just.wing.it]

25 cent feeder goldfish from PetSmart.

....pet stores get their goldfish from Fishy Mills...

Lol, jk!

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Good advice here; I think a bubbler and some goldfish should do the trick.

 

[Saving_Ginkgo]

I worked on the Federal acid rain program for 10 years and the National Water Quality Assessment Program for 20 and rainwater is probalbly better for you plants than tapwater, excepting the low pH and mercury if you’re downwind from a coal fired power plant. I have a rain barrel set up near my plants and I water straight from the barrel. The organics that get in as a result of small particluates from my gutter probalby add to the nutrient value—think leaf tea.

Can you make it rain allot more in south Texas?

 

[bonsai-ben]

Buy everything in one quantity as linked

https://www.amazon.com/CNZ-Aquarium-Bubbling-Release-1-inch/dp/B01LFPNGF4/ (10 pack)

and use sprinkler hose line to connect them to

https://www.amazon.com/Pawfly-Aquarium-Chromium-Distributor-Accessories/dp/B073CTVJGJ/

which connects to

https://www.amazon.com/Tetra-Whisper-Easy-Aquariums-Non-UL/dp/B000A0PYQK/

which connects to your AC Outlet.

These air stones just add air to your water. Basic hydroponics. The stones should stay at the BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. So, make sure you cut the length of tubing appropriate to reach your little valve distributor and then your air pump. Pretty easy stuff, $100 ish solution that will work for many years.

 

[bonsai-ben]

PS -- Stagnant water is what creates all the bacteria and bullshit you dont want. The air stones is the solution for your *entire* problem. You need not do anything with hydrogen peroxide, unless spraying a tree trunk to remove the crap from the previous owner without having to brush it. Try it on a willow leaf, spray bottle it to the trunk. They look awesome clean but gnarly. But for this purpose no peroxide is required.

 

[SU2]

There are a couple of things @cmeg1 has shown here you might be able to implement;

First - His barrels are covered, closed, and you cannot see though them. That stops airborne "things" from creating problems, coupled with sun.
Second - that overflow protection could simply be a PVC pipe near the top of the barrel and divert the access anywhere you choose.
Third - some type if filter material like mentioned would stop larger debris from entering the container if the top was modified a bit and the plastic mesh attached over the water entry.

Far from perfect but could be done nicely and not expensive while being portable.

.4 parts per million is the standard use of chlorine in water distribution, not a lot by any means and probably is not needed for your use anyways. The plants won't care about it being potable for human consumption, they just need it to flow by roots dragging air and nutrients behind it. As for what you have now it sounds like you are adding treated water anyways so there will be some protection in that method. If the way it looks after a few days bothers you as is you have a easy solution too. Simply tip the containers over and rinse with a hose!

I have said all that to bring up this point - The same water you are not needing to worry about is watering everything else alive around you!

Grimmy

Thanks a lot that's very useful!! Am going to have a hell of a time figuring out the .4ppm value for the meanwhile (til I've got a real barrel, while I'm still using open-top containers - I've got chlorine so figure that, if it's the standard, I may as well use it - it 'gasses off' anyways right? So I could even over-do it and simply let it gas a day or two, like if I'd messed-up and left it undisturbed for a day....that'd be unlikely but it's nice to know I can just use some chlorine, just no idea how to convert ppm's to "tbsp/gal" lol ;p )

 

[SU2]

I worked on the Federal acid rain program for 10 years and the National Water Quality Assessment Program for 20 and rainwater is probalbly better for you plants than tapwater, excepting the low pH and mercury if you’re downwind from a coal fired power plant. I have a rain barrel set up near my plants and I water straight from the barrel. The organics that get in as a result of small particluates from my gutter probalby add to the nutrient value—think leaf tea.

I agree re nutrients from the organic debris, my concern is more about the inorganic/synthetic textile break-down from the shingles :/ I doubt it's anything to give a hoot about though, in any practical terms!

(and re 'probably better for your plants', it certainly is! It blew my mind realizing just how acidic rain is and obviously plants have evolved on that, containerizing them w/ neutral-pH inorganic substrate and then using my 8pH tap water was no good!!)

 

[SU2]

This is my first Spring at the new place.First time with rain barrels too.
I have about 20 pre-bonsai and propagating stock in 8” bulb pans.When things get growing ,I could see myself using maybe 5-7 gallons a day.These are 30 gallon drums I get from work( the white ones are my set-up).
I have 5 total,so roughly a month or more of water.Even heavy fog will give me about 12 gallons of water!
Honestly,I imagine there will be some green on the inside of the drums eventually,but I think it be fine.I was more concerned with mosquitos.They will have to fly down my gutter to get into the water.
Usually when rain is predicted I drain a few barrels into the yard...and not to mention watering newly planted flowers and landscape trees.
I would think even pond water is good for bonsai.
Thanks for the compliment!

Absolutely, it's a great setup!!

So if i'm getting you right, you don't use anything to prevent bacteria/algae in these? I'm assuming you've got air-stones or something to keep the water from going anoxic/anaerobic right? Are you using anything else for treating the water, or the rainwater just collects and sits with air-stones?

 

[GrimLore]

Am going to have a hell of a time figuring out the .4ppm value for the meanwhile (til I've got a real barrel, while I'm still using open-top containers - I've got chlorine so figure that, if it's the standard, I may as well use it

That means one part per million is the same as one drop of a substance in a million drops, or 50 liters, of water. And because there are 3.78 liters in a gallon, one part per million is also the same as one drop of a substance in about 13.2 gallons of water. Now .4 is smaller then 1 so for safety I would use now more then a drop per 4 gallons - very little

For the record some growers actually treat soil with chlorinated water a few days before planting, but again in low amounts.

Grimmy