Can I add anything (hydrogen peroxide?) to stagnant rainwater to make it usable?

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@SU2Goldfish are hardy, but not bullet proof either.

Many / most goldfish won't touch mosquito larvae. You may get lucky, but probably not. I have tried all kinds of fish to eat mosquito larvae and the only true guarantee is mosquito fish. I have never had a single mosquito fish that didn't LOVE eating mosquitoes. But guppies, swordtails, mollies, bettas, tetras... most won't touch 'em.
 

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Actually plants have not evolved with acidic rain. The acidity largely comes from burning of coal and oil products and has only been a major factor for the last 50 years or so—not exactly an evolutionary time scale. Rain can be acidified near natural sources of sulur dioxide relases such as volcanos and can become basic in terrain with a lot of limestone dust. However it should normally be only slightly aciidc due ot the carbon dioxide in the air reacting with water vapor to form a weak acid at about pH 5.6 (7 is neutral). Remember the pH scale is log based so pH7=0, 6=1, 5=10, 4=100, etc. At one time automobile manufacturers were excluding acid rain damage from their paint warranty.
 
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Many / most goldfish won't touch mosquito larvae. You may get lucky, but probably not. I have tried all kinds of fish to eat mosquito larvae and the only true guarantee is mosquito fish. I have never had a single mosquito fish that didn't LOVE eating mosquitoes. But guppies, swordtails, mollies, bettas, tetras... most won't touch 'em.
I worked for the park service one summer while in college and we raised mosquito fish in the aquatic gardens over in Anacostia MD. We regularly would go out and net a bunch and put them in the various fountains and water features in Wash. DC to combat the mosquito population. Now I just buy mosquito dunks at Lowes and keep one floating in the rain barrel. They contain good old Bacillus thuringiensis.
 

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Many / most goldfish won't touch mosquito larvae. You may get lucky, but probably not. I have tried all kinds of fish to eat mosquito larvae and the only true guarantee is mosquito fish. I have never had a single mosquito fish that didn't LOVE eating mosquitoes. But guppies, swordtails, mollies, bettas, tetras... most won't touch 'em.

I dunno ... I have a couple of open 100 gal Rubbermaid farm containers I store water in and I’ve put a couple feeder goldfish in each and every year for the past ten yrs at least and they always eat the mosquito larvae. Sometimes I feel wealthy and buy fancier goldfish or baby koi. Either way the tubs can be teeming with wrigglers when I put the fish in and within a week they are gone and stay gone. Maybe I’m lucky. One year I tried “rosies” or something they were selling at petco. They worked too.

If I feed the fish they will get big fast and I will start to get attached to them, but then they attract the attention of raccoons, or something, who make them disappear overnight. So I usually don’t. I’m not interested in putting netting over the tubs either. I also used to try to save the surviving fish over the winter inside the house. Now I usually don’t bother.
 
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sparklemotion

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Many / most goldfish won't touch mosquito larvae. You may get lucky, but probably not. I have tried all kinds of fish to eat mosquito larvae and the only true guarantee is mosquito fish. I have never had a single mosquito fish that didn't LOVE eating mosquitoes. But guppies, swordtails, mollies, bettas, tetras... most won't touch 'em.

Interesting. I'll admit to never being particularly scientific about it, but I know that the goldfish I've used have definitely been eating something, because they've always been bigger at the end of the season than at the beginning, and I certainly am not feeding them.

It also seemed that the rain barrel had fewer mosquitoes emerging from it in the weeks after we added the fish than in those overly optimistic weeks before. But, right now, the only "working fish" I have is in a pond, and it's not really feasible for me to detect how many mosquitoes in my yard are coming from the pond as opposed to the "wetland" a quarter mile away. Plus I know that there are definitely other squigglies for the pond fish to eat (dragonfly nymphs are terrifying until you google enough to figure out what they are).
 
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I have tried regular goldfish, but not koi. I have a feeling koi, just given their size, might slurp up mosquito larva just in the course of eating anything they can fit in their mouths. My koi will eat juniper branches, for example, if they can reach them.
 

SU2

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Highly unlikely unless the water sits unused and uncovered in these parts for an extended hot spell, let's say 2 weeks of 85F plus... On a bright note there is a safe solution if needed sold at big box stores, etc... It is so safe you can and farmers do toss into water troughs when needed. I have used it in Fountains with great success and pretty simple. Wrap one in an old sock and tightly tie closed with a rock in it to hold it down in the water, cut off the excess sock and drop it in :)

View attachment 187107

Grimmy
These....these are awesome!!! Never knew they were a thing, that looks like it'd do more than just be a water-preserver but would actually help legitimately control them (I've got a ton of mosquitos out back once the sun starts setting..)
 

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Peroxide lowers the pH quite a lot. And it does act as an oxidizer, even to roots.
Bubblers are great.

To be honest, i've been watering with stagnant rainwater for 15 years now, and it's never been a problem to me. Sure, the algae suck sometimes and clog everything.. But that's about it.
PH= 5.7-6.5 around here after standing for a while.
I have added a mosquito net to the top to try and prevent those from finding the best possible home.

Re peroxide, oxidation is the primary mechanism by which it works right? If you know much about it I'd be curious if you know how long it takes to break-down / 'gas-off' / become-inert? I know it's quick but unsure if it's half a day or multiple days....I was only considering its usage in a context wherein I'd use the water after that window (may need to post to my favorite chemistry board to get specifics on this...there's a user on this site who knows everything about the stuff I just can't remember who for the life of me!

(btw the pH lowering effect, I wonder two things here- firstly, whether it'd be of any practical relevance ie the amount of it used would be so small comparatively that I can't help feel it'd be very minor (like on the order of tenths of a pH point, if that), and secondly I wonder whether its break-down changes anything here (am doubting it does) and am still not sure whether or not pH-values can just be 'added up' ie whether things like buffering capacity make it so adding equal volumes of 4pH and 6pH does not equal 5.0pH....in any event, at the time (til rainy season in June!), I'll be using it mixed w/ my tap-water so even if it were a bit more acidic it'd be fine, plus I've got higher-4's pH rain, up in MA it's 4.1 or 4.2pH so wouldn't be worried about anything over >4 yknow?)

That said, you're right, bubblers are great!!!! I don't know exactly what I'll get yet, in fact I've been wondering whether an even better idea would be powerheads, they're used in aquariums to move the water in the tank (basically just submersible pumps), having one in the container that's aimed upward so as to perturb the surface (introducing plenty of oxygen as it stirs the water) but also keeps the entirety of the water moving, I can't help but picture a 6" air-stone in a 55gal as providing oxygen (that'd diffuse to the entirety of the water) but leaves many areas relatively/entirely motionless, I guess I'm thinking a powerhead on the bottom (aimed up toward the surface) would be even more efficient here! Would be even better for me since I've already got a powerful submersible pump from an old koi-fish pond :D Will definitely need to get a regular air-pump & stones for the open-top containers!


---

Hearing you say you use stagnant water is incredibly reassuring tbh, guess my biggest worries can't really be so bad then! Just how stagnant are you talking? (am not planning to drop the pumps&air-stones, just curious ;D ) And when you say algae, do you mean in the tub or on your substrate/trees? Because I've already got a large algae issue on the latter, many of my trees have algae rings around their bases that I cannot rectify :/
 

SU2

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@SU2, I love how much thought you put into this stuff, but like the fertilizer rabbit hole that we went down, it seems like you are starting without a proper definition of the problem that you're trying to solve. Are you aware of a cautionary tale about someone watering plants with stagnant rain barrel water and causing harm? Or is this more of a "I wouldn't want to drink it, so neither should my plants" type of thing?

I don't have a rain barrel right now, but when I did, it sat mostly full for most of the summer. No bubbler, a cover with screen holes small enough to keep out leaves, but not mosquitoes. We handled the mosquitoes with a 25 cent feeder goldfish from PetSmart. Goldfish are hardy, but not bullet proof either. If the water was so bad that the goldfish died, *maybe* I'd think about not putting it on my plants (but then again, maybe not, some of the stuff that kills fish in tanks -- nitrates/nitrites -- is what plants crave).


No I didn't come across some anecdote that had me worried it was just the thought of stagnant water, of seeing & smelling water sometimes that's been sitting stagnant for a week and thinking that there's potential for myriad nasties to be the cause of 'stagnation' (have a thread on a chem board now about the process of stagnation itself lol ;p ) And re the thought put it, it can just be such a PITA to realize you've been doing something wrong and wasting time - the fertilizer rabbit-hole was well worthwhile for me because it led me to the pH-problem I've got (ie my chlorosis that I thought was iron but then didn't respond to iron treatment....it was because my water is 8pH and iron is hardly available at that level), between stuff like that and proper pruning (am still having trouble with 'stage 2-4' hard-prunes, like the 3rd and 4th time that I've let many of my trees grow-out, I'm still just doing the same cut-back and think I'm doing it wrong...still need to post a progression-pic thread to get told the thing(s) I'm doing wrong!), well, I just like to make sure I actually understand because just following rules w/o understanding them leads to dumb things like spending a year not knowing you were getting un-treatable chlorosis due to pH levels :/

Your tale of your rain barrel though, damn that gives me incredible confidence in it / gets rid of any pressing concerns, I mean I'll still be setting-up with movement in the water (air-stone(s) or powerhead) but both for now (w/ just open-top barrels) and when I get the real-deal, that is great to hear :D

(and thanks for that last part I literally just got my VPN working again last night so can finally access movies again lol, haven't seen that for ages am DL'ing it now ;D I actually had a real life Brawndo can! It was years after the movie, I was traveling the east-coast (moving to FL from MA) and stopped at some ghetto 'bodega'/crummy convenience store and it blew me away they literally had brawndo!! There was no accompanying Idiocracy promotion, they were just there like regular drinks! Must've been a novelty from the movie that just found its way through an odd supply-chain to end up as a retail-beverage on the shelf like that!)
 

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Buy everything in one quantity as linked

https://www.amazon.com/CNZ-Aquarium-Bubbling-Release-1-inch/dp/B01LFPNGF4/ (10 pack)

and use sprinkler hose line to connect them to

https://www.amazon.com/Pawfly-Aquarium-Chromium-Distributor-Accessories/dp/B073CTVJGJ/

which connects to

https://www.amazon.com/Tetra-Whisper-Easy-Aquariums-Non-UL/dp/B000A0PYQK/

which connects to your AC Outlet.

These air stones just add air to your water. Basic hydroponics. The stones should stay at the BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. So, make sure you cut the length of tubing appropriate to reach your little valve distributor and then your air pump. Pretty easy stuff, $100 ish solution that will work for many years.

$100ish?? Wow it's been a while since I've had tanks but remember it being much cheaper! I'd probably get a pump on amazon or a thrift (maybe walmart or ebay) and ebay my accessories but am already in possession of a strong pond-pump that I'd rather use, I prefer the idea of using powerheads / pumps to push the water from the bottom to the top (perturbing the surface which introduces plenty of oxygen) over the stones because of the motion (and because I've already got it lol, although even if I didn't I still think a powerhead would be a simpler, more effective solution)

How long do you run the airstones per day? Surely not 24hrs? Am unsure how long I'd leave the pump on for, am thinking a few 5-10min sessions through the day (8hr intervals) would be sufficient, especially after reading multiple people who've used motion-less water w/o issue :D
 

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PS -- Stagnant water is what creates all the bacteria and bullshit you dont want. The air stones is the solution for your *entire* problem. You need not do anything with hydrogen peroxide, unless spraying a tree trunk to remove the crap from the previous owner without having to brush it. Try it on a willow leaf, spray bottle it to the trunk. They look awesome clean but gnarly. But for this purpose no peroxide is required.

I've gotta use hydrogen peroxide on my trunks due to my crap lol, I'd collected & propagated too many things in too-airy mediums (pure perlite even), and the commensurate watering-frequency led to lots of trees w/ bad algae rings :(

(another thing re airstones // air-pumps or powerheads....with airstones there's just not the same type of water movement, you can have spots that don't have any real motion especially when the stones become crappy which IME happens pretty quickly, feel like a single pump/powerhead placed on the center-bottom of the barrel, aimed upward, would be introduce the same (full) oxygen as well as being damn-sure everything's mixed/homogeneous!)

[ps I was hoping to get your thoughts / advice on something on my crape myrtle as we'd been discussing in the other thread, would you be ok w/ me messaging you? Or better yet just making a thread and tagging you? There are several branches on it that I just don't know WTH to do with lol!]
 

SU2

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That means one part per million is the same as one drop of a substance in a million drops, or 50 liters, of water. And because there are 3.78 liters in a gallon, one part per million is also the same as one drop of a substance in about 13.2 gallons of water. Now .4 is smaller then 1 so for safety I would use now more then a drop per 4 gallons - very little ;)

For the record some growers actually treat soil with chlorinated water a few days before planting, but again in low amounts.

Grimmy

That's always bothered me- how confident are you on drops=volume? This has come up in other contexts and I've never been able to determine that a drop has a uniform size....if I've got chlorine in two different bottles w/ drip-tips on the bottles, I can make 2 different sized drops, can't I?

Based on how you're saying it, I'd probably play it safe and just use 1 drop / 5gal....is there any special type I need like 100.00% usp chlorine, or can I just use pool chlorine? Would love to hear that I can use the latter as I've got access to enough of it!

Thanks again man :D
 

SU2

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Many / most goldfish won't touch mosquito larvae. You may get lucky, but probably not. I have tried all kinds of fish to eat mosquito larvae and the only true guarantee is mosquito fish. I have never had a single mosquito fish that didn't LOVE eating mosquitoes. But guppies, swordtails, mollies, bettas, tetras... most won't touch 'em.


I wouldn't do that because I would feel like I was torturing the fish, I used to be very much into marine tanks and love fish, could never keep a goldfish w/o being sure everything was right for him and am not interested in having another 'project' tacked-on to this one ;P

(the idea of them pooping and starting the ammonia-->nitrite-->nitrate cycle, and that leading to more nutes in the water, has some level of appeal - but I'd sooner just put a handful of compost in there and have it be a compost-tea rain-barrel! Heck, upon writing this, I'm having trouble coming up w/ a reason not to introduce good microbes / inoculate the barrel from the start! I know compost tea is lacking in good research/back-ups but, if it's helpful anywhere, it'd be on our inorganic substrates!!)
 

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Actually plants have not evolved with acidic rain. The acidity largely comes from burning of coal and oil products and has only been a major factor for the last 50 years or so—not exactly an evolutionary time scale. Rain can be acidified near natural sources of sulur dioxide relases such as volcanos and can become basic in terrain with a lot of limestone dust. However it should normally be only slightly aciidc due ot the carbon dioxide in the air reacting with water vapor to form a weak acid at about pH 5.6 (7 is neutral). Remember the pH scale is log based so pH7=0, 6=1, 5=10, 4=100, etc. At one time automobile manufacturers were excluding acid rain damage from their paint warranty.

Thanks a ton for that, didn't know much of that!! Although I guess it's still safe to say they want things acidic evolutionarily with rainwater being (in pre-civilization times) closer to 5.6pH... I'm afraid I don't know what log-based means but am intrigued....makes me think the "adding equal amounts of pH 4 and pH 6 water equals pH 5 water" idea is wrong!
 

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I worked for the park service one summer while in college and we raised mosquito fish in the aquatic gardens over in Anacostia MD. We regularly would go out and net a bunch and put them in the various fountains and water features in Wash. DC to combat the mosquito population. Now I just buy mosquito dunks at Lowes and keep one floating in the rain barrel. They contain good old Bacillus thuringiensis.
Even though you were replying to someone else- great post!! Am curious- how would these distributed goldfish eat? Or is it the type of thing where you just accepted that some will be put in areas where they'll starve, but enough won't so it's overall a positive (for mosquito control)?

And you say the mosquito dunks contain 'bacillus thuringiensis', is this a particularly special microbe? Am guessing I'd find it listed on the index of my garden-tone organic fert (has a ton of microbial inoculants) but the way you phrase it makes me wonder if it's not better than the others (am very ignorant of the role bacteria play outside of specific 'nitrogen fixing'....I know there's a whole web of microbes amongst the roots that extend their intake-surface-area, a great symbiosis for us, but so far as the mechanisms I only understand it as "fungi grow and spread and share w/ the roots" lol ;p Can't help but wonder what your thoughts are on compost teas? I've been persuaded against them in the past but, now, in the context of already having a barrel of water w/ constant motion&aeration, well, I can't help but think it'd be beneficial to make it a compost-tea barrel instead of trying to keep it sterile w/ chlorine....hmmmmm!)
 

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Re peroxide, oxidation is the primary mechanism by which it works right? If you know much about it I'd be curious if you know how long it takes to break-down / 'gas-off' / become-inert? I know it's quick but unsure if it's half a day or multiple days....I was only considering its usage in a context wherein I'd use the water after that window (may need to post to my favorite chemistry board to get specifics on this...there's a user on this site who knows everything about the stuff I just can't remember who for the life of me!

(btw the pH lowering effect, I wonder two things here- firstly, whether it'd be of any practical relevance ie the amount of it used would be so small comparatively that I can't help feel it'd be very minor (like on the order of tenths of a pH point, if that), and secondly I wonder whether its break-down changes anything here (am doubting it does) and am still not sure whether or not pH-values can just be 'added up' ie whether things like buffering capacity make it so adding equal volumes of 4pH and 6pH does not equal 5.0pH....in any event, at the time (til rainy season in June!), I'll be using it mixed w/ my tap-water so even if it were a bit more acidic it'd be fine, plus I've got higher-4's pH rain, up in MA it's 4.1 or 4.2pH so wouldn't be worried about anything over >4 yknow?)

That said, you're right, bubblers are great!!!! I don't know exactly what I'll get yet, in fact I've been wondering whether an even better idea would be powerheads, they're used in aquariums to move the water in the tank (basically just submersible pumps), having one in the container that's aimed upward so as to perturb the surface (introducing plenty of oxygen as it stirs the water) but also keeps the entirety of the water moving, I can't help but picture a 6" air-stone in a 55gal as providing oxygen (that'd diffuse to the entirety of the water) but leaves many areas relatively/entirely motionless, I guess I'm thinking a powerhead on the bottom (aimed up toward the surface) would be even more efficient here! Would be even better for me since I've already got a powerful submersible pump from an old koi-fish pond :D Will definitely need to get a regular air-pump & stones for the open-top containers!


---

Hearing you say you use stagnant water is incredibly reassuring tbh, guess my biggest worries can't really be so bad then! Just how stagnant are you talking? (am not planning to drop the pumps&air-stones, just curious ;D ) And when you say algae, do you mean in the tub or on your substrate/trees? Because I've already got a large algae issue on the latter, many of my trees have algae rings around their bases that I cannot rectify :/

Peroxide breaks down in H+, H2O, h2 gas, and O2 gas and O3 gas. All of these gasses can stay suspended as do the charged particles.
The time depends on the dose, temperature, light.. 3% peroxide can be kept in an open container for about 4-6 days at room temp until most gasses are gone. Whats left is acidic water high in oxygen. But thats for a few millilitres. I dont know about larger tanks.

How stagnant my water is? It isn't touched until it rains and the barrel flows over. As stagnant as it can be basically.
The algae reside in the water during the summer, the rest of the year its pretty clear stuff.

As for the pH, peroxide doesnt buffer very well, but its just a super weird oxidizer and acid with pretty unique properties.
A while ago I did some calculations, if i remember correctly, you can add up and calculate an average pH based on the ph values.
Plants prefer a pH range fortunately, and rarely one specific value (there is an optimal value, mind me, but the drawback of being tenths of points off is neglible).

If your pH is that low, consider buying some cheap potassium lye (KOH). Make a 4M solution (4.32×4 grams per liter from the top of my head) and add a teaspoon to the barrel. That should bring it up to around 0.2-0.5 point per teaspoon in the average rain barrel. Upping that pH also kills a lot of algae.
 
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GrimLore

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Based on how you're saying it, I'd probably play it safe and just use 1 drop / 5gal....is there any special type I need like 100.00% usp chlorine, or can I just use pool chlorine? Would love to hear that I can use the latter as I've got access to enough of it!

That would be fine, and honest no need to worry about the size of a drop, lol :p

I would avoid pool treatment(s) they vary in total content and in general for that reason not considered good to drink. When chlorine (in any form) is added to water, a weak acid called Hypochlorous acid is produced. It is this acid, not the chlorine, which gives water its ability to oxidize and disinfect. Going back to my general rule of if it is safe for you it is certainly safe for your plants, pool water, not so much as we don't know what else it contains or what other "products" are in it.

Grimmy
 
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BT is widely used in horticulture to control insect pests and many natural insecticides contain it. Wikipedia has a good writeup on it.
 
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I've gotta use hydrogen peroxide on my trunks due to my crap lol, I'd collected & propagated too many things in too-airy mediums (pure perlite even), and the commensurate watering-frequency led to lots of trees w/ bad algae rings :(

(another thing re airstones // air-pumps or powerheads....with airstones there's just not the same type of water movement, you can have spots that don't have any real motion especially when the stones become crappy which IME happens pretty quickly, feel like a single pump/powerhead placed on the center-bottom of the barrel, aimed upward, would be introduce the same (full) oxygen as well as being damn-sure everything's mixed/homogeneous!)

[ps I was hoping to get your thoughts / advice on something on my crape myrtle as we'd been discussing in the other thread, would you be ok w/ me messaging you? Or better yet just making a thread and tagging you? There are several branches on it that I just don't know WTH to do with lol!]

a.) airstones run 24/7. There are no stagnant spots. That's why you drop 10 air stones. You cover the bottom of it. Even with 2 air stones you'd circulate a 55 gallon drum of water. Circulation, as well as air, is provided. :) After all do you worry about your boiling water not boiling because it's partially not on every part of the stove? Nah. It all moves. Bubbles. Air stones crappy? Easy. Bigger pump. Do remember, you should clean them, say once every few months just by wiping them with a rag. That's also why you use ten, not two. :)

b.) Crape Myrtles -- Yup, I screwed you on that, on purpose but not. I intend to answer you, but one began to immediately flower in the full photo worthy short nodes, so I did not do any work yet and am waiting for it to finish flowering to photo then work. Then, I can show you via video. I do YouTube now, rather than type individually. Easier. The other Crape I chopped the entire top of and started drilling holes and hollowing out. I spent 8 hours carving so far and probably have another 20 to go. There's nothing to show you on it, other than sawdust or backbudding. :) Which, of course, it's profusely backbudding everywhere. I could pick branches as I carve the damn thing they pop so fast.

If you will be at BSF, which, if you arent, you are an idiot or have prior schedule conflicts, you will also see the Crapes as well as 250 other big trees when you come over and see the garden.
 

SU2

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I dunno ... I have a couple of open 100 gal Rubbermaid farm containers I store water in and I’ve put a couple feeder goldfish in each and every year for the past ten yrs at least and they always eat the mosquito larvae. Sometimes I feel wealthy and buy fancier goldfish or baby koi. Either way the tubs can be teeming with wrigglers when I put the fish in and within a week they are gone and stay gone. Maybe I’m lucky. One year I tried “rosies” or something they were selling at petco. They worked too.

If I feed the fish they will get big fast and I will start to get attached to them, but then they attract the attention of raccoons, or something, who make them disappear overnight. So I usually don’t. I’m not interested in putting netting over the tubs either. I also used to try to save the surviving fish over the winter inside the house. Now I usually don’t bother.

WHHAAaaaat?! OMG this is the coolest thing I've heard, I had no idea how hardy they were (I only have experience w/ saltwater fish and my experiences w/ them were that they needed incredibly stable parameters, I knew that freshwater was more forgiving but had no idea it was that forgiving!!! Am totally wanting to get some now, as, even once I get my rain barrel (expecting delivery from my friend tomorrow, though I'll still need to build it, am just getting the 55gal industrial plastic drum), I will still use the 50+gal open-top rubbermaids (for more water-collection, especially since the barrel requires a gutter that is going to be a problem figuring-out as I'm in a rental...) and you now have me VERY eager to get fish!!

Do you feed them fish flakes or do they just kinda munch on whatever falls-in? I'm kind of a pansy when it comes to their well-being, like if I'd be expecting 1/3 of them to die I don't know that I could stomach that, but it sounds like they're just fine in your setup and, if that's the case, I want to do whatever's necessary to emulate you, cannot explain how much I'd love to have them but I thought it'd require a lot more equipment, a lot more consideration of placement of the tub, etc etc, it sounds like you just tossed some in and they thrive!

Any&all elaboration you can give me on this would be hugely appreciated man!!!! (am presuming you're male based on username ;P )

[would you recommend 'feeder goldfish' (these are just 'regular' goldfish right? ie, not 'fancy' goldfish) over rosies or other species? Will see if you're lucky as you say or if I can replicate this w/ success! I've got cats that may find them, in which case it'll be a no-go, but think I can set it up to hide them!]
 
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