Can someone explain pottery to me?

[LittleDingus]

I imagine, as with most things, this is a huge topic! I'll never be a potter but I would like to understand some of the basics if only to know how to better shop

Some questions:

What's a cone? And how many do I need?

I understand that a cone is something to do with how hot a piece is fired, but what does the term mean? And how hot does it need to be fired to have a reasonable chance of surviving the outside in, say zone 5?

I do have a pot or 3. On one of them, the glaze is cracked. I think that is intentional? I've seen some advertized as "cracked glaze"...is there a danger of the glaze cracking and flaking off?

Is there a structural difference between wheel thrown and slab constructed? When building with slabs, is there a danger of the joints popping because it's hard to whet the clay together that way? I'm thinking my childhood days when it was frustrating to get two pieces of clay to stick together...always trying to smooth over the seam but is always seemed to break. But maybe the oil clays I played with as a child don't behave the same as the clays used to make pots?

Anyway, I'm not looking for a dissertation on pottery (but if you're willing to write one, I'll happily read it!) I know it's a big subject. I would like to at least understand some of how the process works so I can better judge if what I'm looking at are worth the vastly different prices potters charge or not. I'm not above paying for quality and I certainly understand paying for an artists time...but there are some many potters at so many price points that I feel I'm too uneducated to judge value

Thanks in advance for any information!

 

[sorce]

Don't take price as any indication of quality.

Cones measure heat work. Temp/time. You needn't be concerned with them if you aren't potting. A Potter who makes you think you do is bullshitting you.

A vitreous (from the Latin glasslike) pot isn't necessarily Frost Proof.

A Frost Proof pot isn't necessarily Vitreous.

Any of these can be had at any temperature/cone.

Not all cone 10 pots are Vitreous or frost-proof.

The only pot that is Vitreous or Frost Proof is one that has been tested as such.

Crackle glaze is a flaw or a feature. Glaze is also frost-proof or not, completely independent from the clay. So a porous glaze on a Vitreous pot can destroy the pot if frozen. This isn't likely.

Round pots are inherently stronger in their one peice construction, made stronger by being round. (Porthole theory)
But not every round pot is stronger than a slab built pot.

Different clays have different strengths and weaknesses. Different firing schedules make a difference, these differences are rarely observable with a look, sometimes observable with touch, sound, and lick, and always only fully known (if they are any good) by the Potter.

The unobservable part is the crystals within, which form the bonds that actually give a piece strength or weakness.
These crystals are what make it possible for any pot to break seemingly randomly, though most occur with drastic quick temperature changes.

Firing Schedules control these crystals. So the best made round pot can be rendered useless, and the worst made slab pot can be made strong, with firing schedule alone. Verified by cones.

Sorce

 

[HorseloverFat]

All of Sorces information is SPOT on... I would like to, also point you towards MY OWN thread, learning about pottery/clay/techniques/firing/temps...

Many Knowledgeable individuals helping my “clueless” self along my own journey..

It MAY be helpful.

Terra Cotta: My musings on...and resulting actions with.

I have been experimenting with terra cotta lately. I have performed numerous tests using varying dry/wet filtration methods relying mostly on particulate sizes and impurity concentrations of clay from different areas.

www.bonsainut.com

 

[HorseloverFat]

Don't take price as any indication of quality.

Cones measure heat work. Temp/time. You needn't be concerned with them if you aren't potting. A Potter who makes you think you do is bullshitting you.

A vitreous (from the Latin glasslike) pot isn't necessarily Frost Proof.

A Frost Proof pot isn't necessarily Vitreous.

Any of these can be had at any temperature/cone.

Not all cone 10 pots are Vitreous or frost-proof.

The only pot that is Vitreous or Frost Proof is one that has been tested as such.

Crackle glaze is a flaw or a feature. Glaze is also frost-proof or not, completely independent from the clay. So a porous glaze on a Vitreous pot can destroy the pot if frozen. This isn't likely.

Round pots are inherently stronger in their one peice construction, made stronger by being round. (Porthole theory)
But not every round pot is stronger than a slab built pot.

Different clays have different strengths and weaknesses. Different firing schedules make a difference, these differences are rarely observable with a look, sometimes observable with touch, sound, and lick, and always only fully known (if they are any good) by the Potter.

The unobservable part is the crystals within, which form the bonds that actually give a piece strength or weakness.
These crystals are what make it possible for any pot to break seemingly randomly, though most occur with drastic quick temperature changes.

Firing Schedules control these crystals. So the best made round pot can be rendered useless, and the worst made slab pot can be made strong, with firing schedule alone. Verified by cones.

Sorce

ALSO, thanks, @sorce , there was some information in HERE that I didn’t know, also..

SCORE!

 

[LittleDingus]

Don't take price as any indication of quality.

Cones measure heat work. Temp/time. You needn't be concerned with them if you aren't potting. A Potter who makes you think you do is bullshitting you.

A vitreous (from the Latin glasslike) pot isn't necessarily Frost Proof.

A Frost Proof pot isn't necessarily Vitreous.

Any of these can be had at any temperature/cone.

Not all cone 10 pots are Vitreous or frost-proof.

The only pot that is Vitreous or Frost Proof is one that has been tested as such.

Crackle glaze is a flaw or a feature. Glaze is also frost-proof or not, completely independent from the clay. So a porous glaze on a Vitreous pot can destroy the pot if frozen. This isn't likely.

Round pots are inherently stronger in their one peice construction, made stronger by being round. (Porthole theory)
But not every round pot is stronger than a slab built pot.

Different clays have different strengths and weaknesses. Different firing schedules make a difference, these differences are rarely observable with a look, sometimes observable with touch, sound, and lick, and always only fully known (if they are any good) by the Potter.

The unobservable part is the crystals within, which form the bonds that actually give a piece strength or weakness.
These crystals are what make it possible for any pot to break seemingly randomly, though most occur with drastic quick temperature changes.

Firing Schedules control these crystals. So the best made round pot can be rendered useless, and the worst made slab pot can be made strong, with firing schedule alone. Verified by cones.

Sorce

So basically: it depends

My general decision making process for pots for plants has typically been: this plant means x to me, I'm not spending more than $y for it's home.

Up until recently, that's basically meant the plastic/resin/mass-market type pots from the big box store. I have a growing collection of very dear to me plants now. Some orchids, some trees, but all plants that my personal economy and attachment have raised the values of x and y in my calculus.

I recently spent the most I ever have on a pot for a group planting of some very dear to me orchids. I did research the potter a bit to make sure she was serious about her craft and that was enough for me to make a purchase. But that pot will never leave its current perch and lives in a very controlled environment.

My next set of very dear to me plants are trees that need to live outside. Their pots will need to take the elements or I will need to be ready to unpot/repot the trees every year. Or plant them in lines, I suppose, but that's tacky! So I'm trying to be a more educated consumer.

The potter of one pot in particular I'm interested in has made several claims that turned on my curiosity receptors!

Many potters I've seen will advertise if their pots are "frost resistant" and suitable to live outdoors. Some claim "high fired". This potter just states "cone 6 stoneware". Now, being a craftsman myself, I understand that craftsmen will often use the buzzwords of their craft without realizing that terms like "high fired" and "cone 6" mean nothing to us mere mortals Sometimes it's clearly marketing bruhaha...sometimes just a lack of understanding the audience. Whatever. My criteria is a pot that can survive zone 5 outdoors because that's where it's likely to live for years.

This same potter claims the pot is "thrown" and "single piece construction". Those I understand a little! But the pot is square (well octagon: square with the corners cut off) and "pressed into shape". So that got me thinking about the whole slab/piecing bit and whether a square pot pressed into shape out of a circle really is better than a slab pot seemed into shape. Which is why I was curious about what happens in pottery at the seems. As A kid, I'd just smudge over the seem with my thumb so it wasn't visible, but the seam was still disjoint underneath my smudging...if that makes sense. Is there a way to tell if the seems have "sealed" if you will?

Hehe, as if my rambling hasn't made it clear enough, I don't even know what questions to ask or things to look out for when purchasing pottery I'm used to thinking $20 was too expensive for a pot, but now I'm looking to spend $120! I don't care about future value for resale...that's not likely to happen. I do understand that for $120 I might be buying once over it's lifetime whereas I may have bought 4-5 times for the same usage with plastic...

Plus, the scientist/engineer in me just loves to understand how things work

 

[LittleDingus]

All of Sorces information is SPOT on... I would like to, also point you towards MY OWN thread, learning about pottery/clay/techniques/firing/temps...

Many Knowledgeable individuals helping my “clueless” self along my own journey..

It MAY be helpful.

Terra Cotta: My musings on...and resulting actions with.

I have been experimenting with terra cotta lately. I have performed numerous tests using varying dry/wet filtration methods relying mostly on particulate sizes and impurity concentrations of clay from different areas.

www.bonsainut.com

Thanks HorseloverFat! I haven't had time to read this yet, but I fully intend to

 

[HorseloverFat]

Thanks HorseloverFat! I haven't had time to read this yet, but I fully intend to

It IS a tad... “lengthy”

 

[sorce]

Mostly it depends, yes!

Is there a way to tell if the seems have "sealed" if you will?

I like to ring a pot striking it from each panel. There is a difference in sound always, but it should be "connected" to the other tones. If the underlying tone changes, it might mean that seam has gaps. But you know what....that doesn't mean it won't survive!

It still depends!

this plant means x to me, I'm not spending more than $y for it's home.

I don't appreciate money's value, but I understand it.

In this game of matching pots and plants, trees more so, there can easily be this level at which money is not an object, because the value we place on the beauty of the composition is that great.

I wouldn't want you to mindlessly spend thousands of dollars on shit you don't need, but limiting your possible enjoyment levels of compositions by remaining in that mindset would be terrible.

I would rather you use more future vision, and see what delights a plant might provide with a pot of a certain look, then find the right pot semi-regardless of price. I think this will bring you more joy.

Note, this also means drilling holes in anything you might find free, provided it is the best look for the plant. You see, being set on any price means being set on paying something. Freedom of the best best works both ways.

I hate limits. Limiting the price is also limiting yourself to paying, taking away all free possibilities.

the scientist/engineer in me just loves to understand how things work

I recently watched an interview with Phil on another YouTube Art Channel. Great interview. Turns out Phil is a Ceramics SuperNerd, having spent the first many years of his ceramics life in industries including Spaceship Stuff.

We all should know most of this information.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Unlike purists, I view matching a special pot to a special tree as a special opportunity. Being from the Chinese end of bonsai, I want the tree to be flattered by the pot and vice-versa. Same thing with the mat and stand and the rest of the paraphernalia in a display. I like to overwhelm the viewer with as much beauty and interest as I can, unlike the Japanese minimalist. To each, their own.

 

[sorce]

Cones. These are 6-7 on the right, 7-8 on the left. One is missing but this reflects the top to bottom of my last firing left to right. The underfired rightmost being in the bottom under the lowest shelf, I wanted to see what kind of heat was there so I can toss some things under for efficiency sake. Indoor art stuff! I started with 3, now 2 suffice, eventually only the target cone will be necessary, it's even possible to read the clay itself after a while. Though the range of colors in different levels of reduction have made this more difficult than in oxidation.



Sorce

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Anyway, I'm not looking for a dissertation on pottery (but if you're willing to write one, I'll happily read it!

ok...

Pot Appreciation 101

Get a refill on your morning cup of coffee. With the blog format changing to bi-weekly posts, we are going deep today, so put off this post until you’re ready to read. I don’t claim to be an …

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

and one good local thread.

Pot School

So I've been deep into studying what makes a pot work with a tree, and how to pair them successfully. Firstly there is masculine and feminine, concepts I understand, and I get the basics of that. Sharp corners, deep pots, strong lips -all masculine traits. Rounded, shallow,curvy -...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[LittleDingus]

I like to ring a pot striking it from each panel. There is a difference in sound always, but it should be "connected" to the other tones. If the underlying tone changes, it might mean that seam has gaps. But you know what....that doesn't mean it won't survive!

Ack! I should have thought of this! I do this all the time when picking out lumber. Split limber sounds fuzzy or dead. Thanks for this reminder @sorce. A little hard to do over the internet though

Note, this also means drilling holes in anything you might find free, provided it is the best look for the plant. You see, being set on any price means being set on paying something. Freedom of the best best works both ways.

Been there, done that and bought the t-shirt! Just this week I needed a tall skinny pot for a small plant with a long taproot. I had a nice handmade marble clay vase and some tile bits...now I'm waiting to see if my seeds germinate

I hate limits.

I see the world differently. Limits and restrictions often lead to the greatest creativity. Unlimited budget: I buy that famous potters pot that is just the exact right design for my tree. $10 budget: I find a fallen log, hollow it out, coat the inside with rubber paint, seal it and plant a tree in it. My tree never wins first prize but everyone who comes to my house comments on it!

Anyway, that's not the point of this conversation. I do want to get some nicer clay pots for certain plants. I've even thought about commissioning a couple for some trees I do want to bonsai but those are a few years out yet. For now I'd just like to understand better what makes a quality pot.

 

[LittleDingus]

ok...

Pot Appreciation 101

Get a refill on your morning cup of coffee. With the blog format changing to bi-weekly posts, we are going deep today, so put off this post until you’re ready to read. I don’t claim to be an …

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

and one good local thread.

Pot School

So I've been deep into studying what makes a pot work with a tree, and how to pair them successfully. Firstly there is masculine and feminine, concepts I understand, and I get the basics of that. Sharp corners, deep pots, strong lips -all masculine traits. Rounded, shallow,curvy -...

www.bonsainut.com

Thanks Brian! I think I have read the "Pot School" thread a while back. What I'm trying to start to understand here is not so much how to match pots to trees but what qualities to look for when buying a pot. The scientist in my tends to want to go at that from the "how it works" direction...

 

[sorce]

what makes a quality pot.

I was watching a JRE with a yoga instructor the other day. They were talking about how food prepared with love is healthier for you than food prepared by someone you don't even know, at some fast food joint. It rings so true for me, especially lately, not going out so much means less eating BS and more cooking in, it feels so good. I feel healthier, and even if I've never made it before, like recent things in the "whats in your Kitchen?" Thread, If I want them to be good, they just ARE!

I really believe this, and believe potting is the same.

A pot made with love makes a quality pot.

If it does need a little shelter, it will tell you.

These pots that break, mass produced unverified garbage, no one cries for, they had no soul, we clean the shirds from the garden so the chickens don't eat them and move on.

Pots with soul will speak to you before that, but strongly enough for you to know they will be fine.

It doesn't matter how thick the line is between yes and no, it's the crossing it that matters.

Sorce

PS

Limits and restrictions often lead to the greatest creativity.

In that necessity forces creativity .... YES.

But within ourselves, limits of thought, limits to awareness and consciousness, limits as humans know a limit is limiting.

No. Never.

 

[penumbra]

Sorce has gone above and beyond here and should be commended. I am not sure I would have the patience.

 

[LittleDingus]

Sorce has gone above and beyond here and should be commended. I am not sure I would have the patience.

I hope by "here" you mean BNut and not my bullshit thread

 

[penumbra]

I hope by "here" you mean BNut and not my bullshit thread

I didn't pick up on any bullshit. I generally filter that out when reading these posts regardless of who the poster might be.

 

[sorce]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with being an informed consumer of bonsai products!

I love talking about pots!

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

@sorce ,

perhaps a suggestion of some simple pottery books -
say, the two Walter Foster books on Pottery ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[penumbra]

There are way too many books on pottery and I have just about all of them. Not particularly proud of this, it is just my nature and I need to get rid of many of them. ( I am looking at some shelves on my office book case where there are over 60 books on various facets of the ceramic arts) If you want to buy books on pottery to learn about pots, it is like buying books on plants to learn about bonsai. You really have to narrow your focus.