Can this work in place of Turface?

[PierreR]

OK dang it! Turface... I can get it, but it's 2 1/2 or 5 hours away. I had Akadama mailed in, have loads of sharp grit, but Turface, well, I give up. I did a ton of reading here and other websites, and get conflicting arguments on the use of damn near every option. I looked for oil dry, no luck, but found this. It seems to be pretty much the same as the oil dry. Anybody willing to give a guy some sound guidance? Will this work? Am I over thinking/researching things?

Took the photos at a dealership.

 

[barrosinc]

It is diatomite... Search this site for that, a lot will show up.

 

[coh]

Looks to be very similar to the napa 8822 product (I think it's called floor dri) that many use. I would test it by soaking in water to see if it holds up. And since you are in a cold area, put some through a few freeze/thaw cycles as well.

 

[PierreR]

Thanks guys. I am not sold on it... I have read every thread back to 2013 about all the different options from kitty litter to Akadama. Some swear by each while others curse it. Seems that everyone has a pet mix, and they are tickeled with the results, while others have had zero or negative results. Akadama, turface, floor dri, kitty litter, all breaking down, turning to mush, causing roots to rot, plugging drain holes... Seriously. I want to use good products, there isnt much of a consensus or agreement on anything. Some say you can grow in crushed glass or marbles...

I know I'm "another new guy", I know these questions get asked and answered on a regular basis, I know how to search, been doing nothing but.. Tried taking notes, but there are too many for and against threads to sway a decision towards what to use. I know there is no perfect mix, I'll mix my own. I just want the mix to contain the best materials I can get my hands on, within a reasonable price.
Please don't infer a negative tone from my post. I hate texting because I think people are getting mad or "pissy" or my posts are read that way.
I am confused and dont want to choose crap materials and harm the trees.

Thanks for your patience, and hopefully your guidance.

 

[coh]

I think the take home message from all the threads, discussions, arguments...is that you can grow trees in all types of soil mixes. You just have to adjust the watering and fertilizing.

You can either make do with what you can find locally (such as the qualisorb if it does hold up OK) or you can spend some more $ and have things like akadama, pumice, lava, or bagged mixes shipped to you. My recommendation is always to test any new/unusual soil component...first using the soaking/freezing test, then plant something in it as a test plant before you subject your whole collection to it.

 

[michaelj]

Diatomite over turface is an easy call for me. My trees root much better in DE; they struggle worst when in turface.

 

[sorce]

Napa 8822. At least the one I get, has like .5% red or dark colored particles.
It's almost all white, dry.

Did you wet yours in the pic?

Carquest brand looks a bit redder, as do others, kind of like yours, and I've found them to crush in fingers.

My deal is, if you can pulverize it in your fingers, it won't hold up.

There are few floor dry, and I would suspect, turface products, that are the same as what folks use. Lot of other BS.

Sift Sift Sift!

Sorce

 

[johng]

Will this work? Am I over thinking/researching things?

Stop thinking and start doing!! You are the only one that can answer the soil question to your own satisfaction... As others have said, it is about finding a mix that works with your watering schedule and climate...and that is unique to you! Experiment, try a few things, see what works best for your trees as there is not a universal solution for all. I am a long time turface user...25 years...I am experimenting with some other components this year...not because turface hasn't performed but to satisfy my own curiosity....akadama, pumice, bonsai block, etc... it is too early for any real conclusions for me, thus far I have no complaints but I also don't see any major advantages either....only time will tell!

 

[Eric Group]

That looks like basically the same think as the Napa Oil dry... Which ought to work fine as part of a mix. Sift it and CLEAN IT. Wash water over it thoroughly and let it dry... There is a lot of dust in there and it will make e water kind of " murky" until you get it all out.. Better to do it before there is a tree in there.

This stuff should work just like turface basically.. Perhaps it is a tad more adsorbent... I think the particle size is better for smaller trees personally. With medium to larger trees, you will probably do better with larger grains- lava, pumice, Akadama...

I don't recommend using This Diatom stuff or Turface EXCLUSIVELY.. but as part of a mix, you should be OK.

 

[Ironbeaver]

I was going to get some of this yesterday, but they were sold out (it was $2.00 off this week). This page: http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter page4.html says it is okay. I haven't been able to find the Napa stuff here in Canada.

 

[sorce]

I was going to get some of this yesterday, but they were sold out (it was $2.00 off this week). This page: http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter page4.html says it is okay. I haven't been able to find the Napa stuff here in Canada.

I tried one of those. Mush.
Don't think they sell any good ones on this continent.

Sorce

 

[ghues]

Pierre can you source pumice? If so it would be worth the extra $.
Cheers
G.

 

[Adair M]

I second the pumice recomendation. The problem is, it's light, so can be displaced with hard rain, watering, etc. So, lava is added to give it a bit of weight.

I'd try to stick with "natural components".

 

[PierreR]

I think so. I am also looking into pebbled lava from an aquarium retailer. I don't know why its so tough to source this stuff up here! So reading between the lines, pumice, lava, akadama are better options than the baked clay products. If this statement is close to true, this is what I am asking at the root of my babbling.

 

[PierreR]

Is pumice and pearlite interchangeable?

 

[michaelj]

No. Pumice is much harder and heavier than perlite.

 

[coh]

So reading between the lines, pumice, lava, akadama are better options than the baked clay products. If this statement is close to true, this is what I am asking at the root of my babbling.

You have to be careful not to get stuck in an endless cycle of "paralysis by analysis", which can easily happen because of all the conflicting information on this subject.

I'll repeat my previous statement - you can grow trees in any of the mixes that have been discussed. You just adjust the watering and fertilizing as necessary.

On this forum, John G uses turface. I think Vance uses it. Julian Adams (not sure if you are familiar with him) uses a mix that is something like 70% turface and he has had trees in the National Exhibition in Rochester. There are members here who use the calcined DE (floor dry type stuff) and like it. And of course, there are many who swear that "Boon mix" or its equivalent (lava/pumice/akadama) is the only way to go.

So...knowing that you can use any of these mixes, how do you decide? You can use whatever is available locally, testing first if it's an unfamiliar product. If you know people in your area who do bonsai, find out what they use. Or you can pick someone whose trees look healthy and whose advice seems solid, and just go with what they use. Maybe you look at the work of Adair or Brian and decide to use Boon mix. Well, it will cost a lot more to get the components or have it shipped in pre-mixed, but that is certainly a valid way to go. Is it better? Maybe, maybe not.

Chris

 

[barrosinc]

You have to adapt your soil mix to your routines and amounts of sun, wind, humidity, etc...
That's why there is not one recipe for everyone... start testing for yourself.

speaking based on what I have read, as diatomite, turface etc are not available in Chile and I have never touched or looked at them is that once the get dry they turn a bit hydrophobic.

 

[pitchpine]

The diatomaceous earth I added to my mix this spring is working great so far! Yet to go through a New England winter, though.

Laura

 

[quietobserver]

No. Pumice is much harder and heavier than perlite.

Fyi and interestingly, I've noticed that pumice has some pretty wide variations in terms of weight and porosity. I guess it depends on which volcanic event created it and what not.