can you fully defoliate an Ume?

[Jason_mazzy]

Curious as the leaves are a little large can you defoliate or do you risk losing the flowers?

 

[Martin Sweeney]

Jason,

Yes and Yes.

Regards,
Martin

 

[Jason_mazzy]

Well then perhaps I will deal with the big leaves and enjoy the flowers.

 

[TheSteve]

I'm curious as to how this will cost you flowers? Ume flower before leaves so defoliation wouldn't seem to affect that in my mind, can you elaborate?

 

[yenling83]

I'm curious as to how this will cost you flowers? Ume flower before leaves so defoliation wouldn't seem to affect that in my mind, can you elaborate?

The Steve-i'm sorry I don't know all the technical terms, but the simple explanation is that the leaves supply the tree with enough energy to produce the flowers in late winter/early spring. Also, my understanding is that larger leaves help produce flowers on all flowering trees. Around this time of year, I have removed about 2-4 smaller leaves towards the base of each branch, this allows more light and air into the interior and makes it easier to wire while keeping the larger leaves which will help produce flowers in the future.


Great post about Ume from Peter Tea:
http://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/japanese-flowering-plum-basics/

 

[TheSteve]

I've read that post. I've also read the part where he says ume will not back bud. I'm just glad my tree didn't read it since it's bursting from the trunk. I think he's referring to trees that are hundreds of years old. We don't have ume like that here yet so I think we need to remember that we're dealing with much younger trees here and responses may not be the same.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Both Peter Warren and Bjorn Bjorholm have recommended I defoliate my Ume. Bjorn said they do it in May at Fujikawa-en, and they wire at the same time. He said that sometimes they grow new leaves, sometimes they don't. I cannot remember if he said it would inhibit flowering, but it does slow down their constant demand for water, and makes it easier to wire.

I have not done it. It would be tempting if I knew it would improve ramification close to the trunk.

 

[TheSteve]

mine was dug this year so my experience is far from extensive. I read that blog post after I had bought a landscape tree with the intention of air layering the daylights out of it. the one that came out of the ground was a month slower but sprouted lower on the trunk than I could have dreamed of and on the interior of primary branches. I'm now rethinking about air layering the bigger one.

 

[yenling83]

I've read that post. I've also read the part where he says ume will not back bud. I'm just glad my tree didn't read it since it's bursting from the trunk. I think he's referring to trees that are hundreds of years old. We don't have ume like that here yet so I think we need to remember that we're dealing with much younger trees here and responses may not be the same.

Yah I think you are correct. I have an Ume maybe 15 years old or so and it still back buds right on the trunk, but it also does not have that really nice old bark like the trees that Peter is working on in Japan.

Brian-that's interesting about defoliating the Ume's. It get's confusing for me because there are a few differnt Techniques you can use at specific times during specific periods of development. I would assume removing the leaves would be for developing branch structure. thanks for sharing that info

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I went back and read my notes and I think the issue is when defoliating, all the energy is put into growing new shoots, and either they don't develop the flower buds because of the stress, or because they need longer to set.

FWIW, mine does have some of that craggy bark developing, and still some of that smooth cherry-like bark. It will back bud from the trunk around the smooth bark, and even better around areas where the cambium is rolling over a cut.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

I was curious if I removed the leaves now and fed a 0 nitrogen fertilizer if I could get smaller leaves and still get flower buds. I believe it was phosphorous that stimulated flower and fruiting.

 

[nathanbs]

This little diagram is something i saved for future reference. It seams to be more appropriate for inducing flower buds.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

This little diagram is something i saved for future reference. It seams to be more appropriate for inducing flower buds.
View attachment 35107

Where did you find that?

 

[nathanbs]

it was from an older bonsai today. Maybe somewhere in issues 8-18. Thats all it really said was that one small diagram. The rest on the same page were for other species