Does any of you collected tree aficionados want to muster up a good blurb on this subject. The well done one on summer candle pruning 2-needles is great but probably not much good for my Pondos, Jacks, Limber or even Scots pines.
Candle-Pruning Bud and Needle management for native pines i.e. Pondo, Shore, Lodge
- Thread starter crust
- Start date
I seccond this request1... I have some nice collected pondy's and limber... a couple are ready to work on, but the others still need a year or two. Any pointers from some of you with more experience would be greatly appreciated! 
Ang3lfir3
Omono
Similar to white pines as they only have one flush a year... for Ponderosa and limber ... I am considering trying the same thing with the shore pines as they are a tad slow.
Ponderosa we usually remove the apical bud once the needles have hardened off ... after that fertilize like mad (after the needles are done extending) ... you should see increased back budding
Limber I don't have any of but we can treat them like reg white pines ... no (or very little) fertilizing till the needles extend and harden off .... prune back this year growth making sure to leave several needle clusters (from this year) .... then fertilize like crazy
Shore pine we have treated like JBP in the past ... considering another approach as they are often weak
Jacks will prolly do well with the same treatment as above for white pines ...
Scots ... we prune them like JBP
just what I have learned from many sources
Ponderosa we usually remove the apical bud once the needles have hardened off ... after that fertilize like mad (after the needles are done extending) ... you should see increased back budding
Limber I don't have any of but we can treat them like reg white pines ... no (or very little) fertilizing till the needles extend and harden off .... prune back this year growth making sure to leave several needle clusters (from this year) .... then fertilize like crazy
Shore pine we have treated like JBP in the past ... considering another approach as they are often weak
Jacks will prolly do well with the same treatment as above for white pines ...
Scots ... we prune them like JBP
just what I have learned from many sources
Bob O
Mame
I have two Ponderosa that I got last year. One I purchased from Jim Doyle on consignment from Walter Pall, I believe it came from Oregon. The other was collected by a friend of mine in the Black hills of S.D., both are very old trees. They were styled and potted in bonsai pots this spring and they seem to be doing well. New growth has hardened off (needles are pretty long) and there is a new bud at the tip of each twig.
"Ponderosa we usually remove the apical bud once the needles have hardened off ... after that fertilize like mad (after the needles are done extending) ... you should see increased back budding"
So what you are saying is to remove this bud and then fertilize heavily? I want to be sure before I do this.
Do you do anything with last years needles? They are off color compared to this years.
Thanks for your help,
Bob O
"Ponderosa we usually remove the apical bud once the needles have hardened off ... after that fertilize like mad (after the needles are done extending) ... you should see increased back budding"
So what you are saying is to remove this bud and then fertilize heavily? I want to be sure before I do this.
Do you do anything with last years needles? They are off color compared to this years.
Thanks for your help,
Bob O
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Ang3lfir3
Omono
Bob .... sorry that I was a little vague on the timing .... once the needles have hardened off .... fertilize strongly including foliage feeding (ignore the nay sayers) ..... in the beginning of Fall remove the newly formed apical bud .... Larry Jackel does include some needle removal but I personally just remove them as they age... of course removing downward pointing needles can always be done regardless (you may prefer to remove them by cutting them close to the sheath or by pulling... i prefer cutting)
Bob O
Mame
Thank you! That is exactly the information I needed. I will start their fertilizeing today. I prefer cutting the needles as well, less likely to harm any latent buds. I have such reverence for these old trees (counted over 150 rings on one) that I am being very careful in their maintenance. Dan's method of "Baby Bending" was used in their styling. (I really enjoyed the book & keep going back to it for inspiration.)
I have been trying to find a copy Larry Jackals' book but they are hard to find. I am going to look at some more Ponderosa pines this weekend so may ad another one or two to my herd. One thing I have noticed about cutting their needles is the fragrance, they almost smell like a citrus/pine combination. Love it!
Thanks again,
Bob O
I have been trying to find a copy Larry Jackals' book but they are hard to find. I am going to look at some more Ponderosa pines this weekend so may ad another one or two to my herd. One thing I have noticed about cutting their needles is the fragrance, they almost smell like a citrus/pine combination. Love it!
Thanks again,
Bob O
Ang3lfir3
Omono
that smell... is one of the ways I know I am home (its what the mountains of Wy smell like in many places) ... Ponderosa do indeed have a distinct smell ....
I know Larry's book can be hard to come by ... I think Chris and Lisa at Telperion _may_ have some if they haven't sold out of them yet ... that is where I got my copy from ...
I am so glad to hear the book is inspirational to you ... Will (grouper52) has truly created one of the most inspiring bonsai books (ever?) ... Dan's story certainly is a life long obsession
to fertilize ... use Miracle grow at regular (as directed on package) strength (some people like the sprayers etc) ... I also use tea bags full of 5-5-5 (or something similar) on the surface as well ... one thing we need to change in american bonsai is that we don't fertilize enough ...
fore
Omono
I hope crust won't mind me asking something as long as we're talking Ponderosa's. All my new needles are still a kinda lime green color, is this normal? I'm feeding it weekly with strong MGrow, osmocote, and iron supplement. So I know it's getting enough N and Fe.
Despite the feeding one does not know if the tree can utilize it. especially if it is not stable. There are so many variables. Collected trees often build healthy root systems and general health very slowly. Bumbling care, bad weather, bad soil and or pathogen attacks can really affect things. Sometimes I use a test by foliar feeding and seeing if there is a marked response.
fore
Omono
This Pondy crust is thriving, back buds and great growth. It's a collected piece from Walter and Jim Doyle's collection...2010 collection date. No disease, not even (knock on wood), needlecast which I battled all yr. last yr. I'll try your suggestion of foliar feeds crust, a good idea to try. Thanks.
I have heard needle color can really be especially variable (genetically) with Pondos but then I had one for years and it was always greyish then I pulled it from its box combed out everything and planted in 5/16" pumice/ lava mix watched it suffer for a year. This year I stuck a few butter tubs full of organic fertilizer (with holes drilled in the bottoms) on the soil surface (which I fill up during daily watering) and watched it turn a very deep green.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Butter tubs, brilliant!
I could put the lids on them at night and stop the critter parade...
I could put the lids on them at night and stop the critter parade...
fore
Omono
That's hilarious crust! And a great idea at that! I had to stop using cakes as no matter what I did, birds would get it. Now butter tubs drilled out will work just fine, Thanks for the idea!
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
And bonus, when you fill the tubs with water, it'll water it s l o w l y....which always works better.
Like I said, brilliant!
Like I said, brilliant!
The tubs are big enough were a regular rain does not flood them and heavy enough not to be blown away. I drill a whole bunch of 7/64th inch holes in the bottom and fill with Jobes granulated organic fertilizer and then just fill it up every watering. I move it around once in a while too. As Miss Judy says, it slowly drips in. Looks crass but works.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Can we please have a closeup shot of the accent plant? Pretty Please?
Its to big to easily photograph but here is the base. This was collected in the Rockies quite a few years ago. Lenz was with and called it the "China tree". Most of the trees from that trip have been grafted with scots pine and are going through a long, slower than expected transition of recovery after I cut off all their mother foliage. Some died. Obviously I never grafted the China tree. Just last year I got it in super course soil and I can tell it appreciates this. The overly huge pot is something Lenz made early in his pottery career.
Oh, you meant the accent plant--I will get that later. Sorry my Juds!Its to big to easily photograph but here is the base. This was collected in the Rockies quite a few years ago. Lenz was with and called it the "China tree". Most of the trees from that trip have been grafted with scots pine and are going through a long, slower than expected transition of recovery after I cut off all their mother foliage. Some died. Obviously I never grafted the China tree. Just last year I got it in super course soil and I can tell it appreciates this. The overly huge pot is something Lenz made early in his pottery career.
fore
Omono
I'll need to keep the lid and drill holes in them too, the damn birds would think it was a plate for dinner lol
Nice base on that Scots btw crust!
Nice base on that Scots btw crust!
