carving bits

[Ross]

Hello all,
I just received my Makita GD0600 die-grinder, and now I need some bits. I have heard good things about the Terrier and Weasel bits from Kaizen Bonsai, and I have also heard people mention the Samurai and Ninja bits as well. Basically I need something to carve down some sizeable elm 'stumps' so I need something that removes wood quickly. I also have a decent Dremel (10.8V lithium cordless) that I can use for smaller/detail work. I'd rather not buy everything just yet, so if I had to start with one bit for the die-grinder and one for the Dremel, what would you recommend?

I've also seen these recommended in previous threads, are they at all comparable to the aforementioned 'bonsai' bits?
http://www.treelineusa.com/power-carving-burs
http://www.amazon.com/Kempston-5010...f=sr_1_13?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1351785276&sr=1-13

Also, can someone PM me with an email address or phone number for Dale Cochoy? I'd like to ask him some questions and order from him if possible but I don't have a facebook account so i can't contact him there. Does anyone else sell these bits domestically besides Dale? I just asked a lot of questions in one post so thanks for any replies!

Ross

 

[Ross]

I should add that I plan on using a router speed control like this one from Harbor Freight so I can dial the grinder down to use with bits that require less RPM. Thanks.

http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html

 

[Poink88]

I use this...
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-18-104-...T7DD/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1366493410&sr=8-4

It comes in different radius too.

So does Dan Robinson...the only bit he used during the convention demo and workshops. Cheap and removes wood super fast. Actually he used another but more like an epoxied brush for clean up.

Someone else uses the much more expensive terrier during the demo (will remain nameless) and it doesn't cut as fast as the router bit.

 

[Ross]

I use this...
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-18-104-...T7DD/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1366493410&sr=8-4

It comes in different radius too.

So does Dan Robinson...the only bit he used during the convention demo and workshops. Cheap and removes wood super fast. Actually he used another but more like an epoxied brush for clean up.

Someone else uses the much more expensive terrier during the demo (will remain nameless) and it doesn't cut as fast as the router bit.

I saw that you recommended that same bit in this thread : http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9316-Grinder-opinions
...but you also said that some people think it's a no-no. Why so? Is that bit not really designed for a die-grinder?

 

[Poink88]

I saw that you recommended that same bit in this thread : http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9316-Grinder-opinions
...but you also said that some people think it's a no-no. Why so? Is that bit not really designed for a die-grinder?

It is designed for a router which goes much faster so I cannot see the reason why people claim it could be unsafe. Any carving bit is unsafe IF you don't use it properly.

I actually asked Dan Robinson that question and he basically said *beep* those people who doesn't use their brains. He endorsed the router bit during the workshops and during the demo. He uses Whiteside which is a great brand but I prefer Freud.

I am just suggesting it but it is up to you.

 

[mcpesq817]

I have the Terrier bit, which I got from Dale a couple of years ago. It works very well. The Samurai and Ninja bits are quite larger if I remember correctly.

It all depends on how much wood you want to remove and how fast you want to remove it. For me, the Terrier works just fine. The larger bits could have come in handy for a couple of trees that I own, but I wasn't going to drop $150 on a bit that I would use two or three times. For me, I was going to get a lot more use out of the Terrier, so it made more sense for me.

 

[crust]

It is designed for a router which goes much faster so I cannot see the reason why people claim it could be unsafe. Any carving bit is unsafe IF you don't use it properly.

I actually asked Dan Robinson that question and he basically said *beep* those people who doesn't use their brains. He endorsed the router bit during the workshops and during the demo. He uses Whiteside which is a great brand but I prefer Freud.

I am just suggesting it but it is up to you.

I actually think the core box router bits like you are referring to are pretty darned safe. It takes a little experience to anticipate the jumpiness. The problem I find with the one bit carving is unless you are working with big stuff it is just too large and unvaried.

 

[Ross]

I actually think the core box router bits like you are referring to are pretty darned safe. It takes a little experience to anticipate the jumpiness. The problem I find with the one bit carving is unless you are working with big stuff it is just too large and unvaried.

How do you handle a bit like that? I've never seen one in action. Should it be pulled left-to-right? Will it cut when being drawn back towards me? Can it be plunged into the wood? Sorry if I have a million questions, thanks for all advice.

 

[jkd2572]

The bits from Kaisen bonsai are far superior than anything I have purchased from tree line, but the are pricey. I have the weasel and its just better than anything I have ever purchased I also purchased the sharpener and still use the same bit today all of the others I have purchased just wear out. I would highly recommend the Kaisen bits. Everything else I have tried get bent shafts or just don't cut. They all have really been a disappointing except anything I have bought from kaisen.

 

[Poink88]

How do you handle a bit like that? I've never seen one in action. Should it be pulled left-to-right? Will it cut when being drawn back towards me? Can it be plunged into the wood? Sorry if I have a million questions, thanks for all advice.

It can be plunged and I prefer pulling it towards me. Secret to control is to take thin slices. IMHO, if you cannot control this bit...sell your die grinder

Dan teaches to control it by holding the front with just the thumb and pointy finger....the rest are in contact with the wood being carved. I haven't practiced that technique yet but I will.

 

[Poink88]

Before you spend $130 or $150 on a fancy bit...I highly encourage you to try the $15.45 bit. If you do not like it you are only out by that much. Better yet, I will buy it back from you. Can't get any better than that.

BTW, Dale Cochoy sell these also and he said whenever he go to Japan he always sells out.

 

[berobinson82]

Before you spend $130 or $150 on a fancy bit...I highly encourage you to try the $15.45 bit. If you do not like it you are only out by that much. Better yet, I will buy it back from you. Can't get any better than that.

BTW, Dale Cochoy sell these also and he said whenever he go to Japan he always sells out.

Taking you up on this deal.

 

[Poink88]

Taking you up on this deal.

Offer was for Ross only...not everyone.

 

[Ross]

What's the better, more versatile bit between the weasel and terrier, or do they serve different purposes? Should I just bite the bullet and buy both of them? Here are pics of my two biggest trees for reference. It looks like the large Terrier bit and the largest weasel bit (103) are both 25mm in diameter. Would it make sense to get the large Terrier for bulk wood removal and then the slightly smaller Weasel 102 (18mm) for rough carving? I will probably also pick up a core box router bit like the one Dario linked, just to give it a whirl...

 

[Ross]

Offer was for Ross only...not everyone.

That's a sweet offer, and I'm going to order one tonight based on what you've said about it. If I don't like it, I'll hold on to it and just give it to you in person at some point whether I'm down in Austin or you're up in Dallas.

 

[Poink88]

Ross, note that carving is not about the bit or tool...it is about the carver. It will take lots of practice (or talent) before you can produce believable carving. I hope you won't attack those nice stocks right away. I'd hate to see them destroyed. The last pic looks like a monster and an awesome one at that!

Good luck!

 

[Poink88]

BTW, I also use this keyhole bit. It works in a way like the weasel/terrier but it has cornered edge (not round). That said, it is good enough for me.

http://www.amazon.com/Kempston-5010...UTF8&colid=5ZVUMZ1HYG6A&coliid=I3TB4E3R9F90T9

or

http://www.amazon.com/Kempston-501011-Keyhole-Cutting-Diameter/dp/B0013KXSMS/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_y

 

[Ross]

...I hope you won't attack those nice stocks right away. I'd hate to see them destroyed...

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dario! These will not be the first two trees I use the die grinder on, but I do plan on having a go at the Pyracantha pretty soon because it has a branch emerging from behind one of the 'sub-trunks' I cut, and I want to carve down and let it have room to grow horizontally. Finishing work will come later, these trees were just collected this spring.

 

[Ross]

BTW, I also use this keyhole bit. It works in a way like the weasel/terrier but it has cornered edge (not round). That said, it is good enough for me.

http://www.amazon.com/Kempston-5010...UTF8&colid=5ZVUMZ1HYG6A&coliid=I3TB4E3R9F90T9

or

http://www.amazon.com/Kempston-501011-Keyhole-Cutting-Diameter/dp/B0013KXSMS/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_y

Is this the one Dan was using? -
http://www.amazon.com/Whiteside-WSS...qid=1366516364&sr=8-1&keywords=Whiteside+SC41

 

[Poink88]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dario!

Sorry, not knowing your carving experience, I am just throwing a word of caution. Better that than be sorry later. As I said, I would hate to see these nice materials ruined.