Bill S
Masterpiece
Rob, I'm ready to take the ride out to pick up that Procumbens, sat. good?
Looking very good. The others arent so bad either.
Looking very good. The others arent so bad either.
Cascade juniper, need suggestions!
- Thread starter edprocoat
- Start date
edprocoat
Masterpiece
October, they are certainly some beautiful big trees you have there! I guess they are about in the 24'' to 30'' range? I mean the tree itself of course. Did you collect them in the wild or buy them that size? The "s" trunk one would have to have been a fortune as it looks very old. You are keeping them very nice judging by the pictures. I love to look at the larger trees, I just do not have the space for them, all of my stuff is under 14'' pot included, most are much smaller, but that is what appeals to me.
I hope I am not sounding like a nit-picker, but, here goes. In my experience the inside of the pot always stays cooler as the potting material, even rock, does not transfer heat as the air in the material is a natural insulation, like the air space in your double glass windows, air just does not transfer energy readily. Also The many terra Cotta pots I have used over the years worked basically just the same as the glazed inside bowls or solid glass bowls I have used as far as the "roots grabbing" onto them. I judge this by the fact that when I want to check the root structure of a tree I let it dry up a bit, turn the pot over holding the tree by the trunk and smack the bottom of the pot with my other hand. This releases the root ball and soil all at once and allows me to see if its root bound or not. I either trim the roots or just place the tree back in the container, if the roots actually grabbed onto the unglazed or terra cotta pots how would one remove the tree from the pot?
I bet you are very happy now that you replaced that old wood fence in the third picture with that new plastic one visible in the first picture, they are a lot less maintenance! Painting a wood fence every year gets to be tedious and the only drawback with a plastic one is the fact they tend to attract green mildew in the damp climates, but a little bleach and they look like new again, and bleaching a plastic fence is sure as hell a lot quicker and easier than scraping , sanding, repairing and painting a wooden one.
ed
I hope I am not sounding like a nit-picker, but, here goes. In my experience the inside of the pot always stays cooler as the potting material, even rock, does not transfer heat as the air in the material is a natural insulation, like the air space in your double glass windows, air just does not transfer energy readily. Also The many terra Cotta pots I have used over the years worked basically just the same as the glazed inside bowls or solid glass bowls I have used as far as the "roots grabbing" onto them. I judge this by the fact that when I want to check the root structure of a tree I let it dry up a bit, turn the pot over holding the tree by the trunk and smack the bottom of the pot with my other hand. This releases the root ball and soil all at once and allows me to see if its root bound or not. I either trim the roots or just place the tree back in the container, if the roots actually grabbed onto the unglazed or terra cotta pots how would one remove the tree from the pot?
I bet you are very happy now that you replaced that old wood fence in the third picture with that new plastic one visible in the first picture, they are a lot less maintenance! Painting a wood fence every year gets to be tedious and the only drawback with a plastic one is the fact they tend to attract green mildew in the damp climates, but a little bleach and they look like new again, and bleaching a plastic fence is sure as hell a lot quicker and easier than scraping , sanding, repairing and painting a wooden one.
ed
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october
Masterpiece
Thanks Bill.. Ya, that is a nice procumbens. They take alot of work, but in the end they are very rewarding
Hi Ed...My trees are not big at all actually.. That is the illusion of bonsai. The first procumbens juniper is only about 11 inches tall, I have been training it for about 5 years. The shimpaku is about 12 inches and has been in training for about 6-7 years. The hinoki cypress is maybe 14 inches tall. I have been training the Hinoki for about 9 years. As far as the fence, it is not replaced, just a different part of the yard.
As far as pots and roots...I am not sure when I learned these things...could be about 10 years ago..I have been involved with bonsai for about 12-13 years, but have been studying and attending workshops and classes for the last 6 or 7 years. When you really get involved with bonsai, you will encounter some, if not many root bound trees. That is just part of the hobby. Anyone involved with bonsai may experience it from time to time simply because older and certain species of trees, do not like to be repotted very often. Also, when you purchase rough stock or good future bonsai material that has just been neglected, can also yield root bound conditions.
As far as removal of a pot bound tree.. You would first, need to cut the wires that hold it in underneath and above. Then gently see if the tree can be eased out by hand. If not, you can use something for a wedge. Sometiems I use a small, kind of butter knife. I gently go around the the perimeter of the inside of the pot. This loosens it up all around the interior edges and you can usually get the tree out from there. Besides the knife, I also use certain bonsai tools. They make certain bonsai tools that can serve 2 functions. For example, bonsai tweezers sometimes have a small flat spatula on the end. Also, I think that some root rakes might have this as well. So you can also use these things to loosen and wedge the tree out as well. However, if the tree is in a plastic pot, I usually just cut the pot off of the tree.
Rob
ps.. This is what the procumbens looked like when I purchased it.
Hi Ed...My trees are not big at all actually.. That is the illusion of bonsai. The first procumbens juniper is only about 11 inches tall, I have been training it for about 5 years. The shimpaku is about 12 inches and has been in training for about 6-7 years. The hinoki cypress is maybe 14 inches tall. I have been training the Hinoki for about 9 years. As far as the fence, it is not replaced, just a different part of the yard.
As far as pots and roots...I am not sure when I learned these things...could be about 10 years ago..I have been involved with bonsai for about 12-13 years, but have been studying and attending workshops and classes for the last 6 or 7 years. When you really get involved with bonsai, you will encounter some, if not many root bound trees. That is just part of the hobby. Anyone involved with bonsai may experience it from time to time simply because older and certain species of trees, do not like to be repotted very often. Also, when you purchase rough stock or good future bonsai material that has just been neglected, can also yield root bound conditions.
As far as removal of a pot bound tree.. You would first, need to cut the wires that hold it in underneath and above. Then gently see if the tree can be eased out by hand. If not, you can use something for a wedge. Sometiems I use a small, kind of butter knife. I gently go around the the perimeter of the inside of the pot. This loosens it up all around the interior edges and you can usually get the tree out from there. Besides the knife, I also use certain bonsai tools. They make certain bonsai tools that can serve 2 functions. For example, bonsai tweezers sometimes have a small flat spatula on the end. Also, I think that some root rakes might have this as well. So you can also use these things to loosen and wedge the tree out as well. However, if the tree is in a plastic pot, I usually just cut the pot off of the tree.
Rob
ps.. This is what the procumbens looked like when I purchased it.
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Ang3lfir3
Omono
Do you have any idea how hard it was to keep quiet about knowing that you happen to specialize in Shohin???? (and work with one of the most well known shohin artists in the country)
bonsapien
Seedling
Try using a bit made for drilling holes in glass and tile. It has a teardrop shape and contains diamond grit. They cut through ceramic like butter.
october
Masterpiece
Hello Ang3lfir3 ... I guess I am doing the right thing with my trees if they look like they are that big.
Rob
.Rob
Ang3lfir3
Omono
Hello Ang3lfir3 ... I guess I am doing the right thing with my trees if they look like they are that big
Rob
Someone might even get the idea that you know what you are doing....
edprocoat
Masterpiece
Thanks Bill.. Ya, that is a nice procumbens. They take alot of work, but in the end they are very rewarding
Hi Ed...My trees are not big at all actually.. That is the illusion of bonsai. The first procumbens juniper is only about 11 inches tall, I have been training it for about 5 years. The shimpaku is about 12 inches and has been in training for about 6-7 years. The hinoki cypress is maybe 14 inches tall. I have been training the Hinoki for about 9 years. As far as the fence, it is not replaced, just a different part of the yard.
As far as pots and roots...I am not sure when I learned these things...could be about 10 years ago..I have been involved with bonsai for about 12-13 years, but have been studying and attending workshops and classes for the last 6 or 7 years. When you really get involved with bonsai, you will encounter some, if not many root bound trees. That is just part of the hobby. Anyone involved with bonsai may experience it from time to time simply because older and certain species of trees, do not like to be repotted very often. Also, when you purchase rough stock or good future bonsai material that has just been neglected, can also yield root bound conditions.
As far as removal of a pot bound tree.. You would first, need to cut the wires that hold it in underneath and above. Then gently see if the tree can be eased out by hand. If not, you can use something for a wedge. Sometiems I use a small, kind of butter knife. I gently go around the the perimeter of the inside of the pot. This loosens it up all around the interior edges and you can usually get the tree out from there. Besides the knife, I also use certain bonsai tools. They make certain bonsai tools that can serve 2 functions. For example, bonsai tweezers sometimes have a small flat spatula on the end. Also, I think that some root rakes might have this as well. So you can also use these things to loosen and wedge the tree out as well. However, if the tree is in a plastic pot, I usually just cut the pot off of the tree.
Rob
ps.. This is what the procumbens looked like when I purchased it.
October that is amazing! I was mislead by the surroundings you had the trees near. I assumed the red bricks in the last picture with the cypress setting on them were standard building bricks which are 4 inches wide with 1/2 an inch of mortar between them making the pot 10 inches wide, which of course would have made that tree at least 30 inches tall, give or take a half an inch. I guess they are some sort of special miniature brick you acquired for your display. The same with the first one, the procumbens, if that would have been a standard vinyl fence that tree would have been well over 26 inches, nice touch posing them in front of minature props for the pictures, especially the one on the floor, the wall jack on the baseboard looks just like a real wall jack, which of course is a 2 inch square and judging by that the tree would be a minimum of 28 inches tall. I guess its all in the presentation!
As far as the root bound tree, I was referring to the statement that roots cling to pots that are unglazed, I have dealt with many rootbound trees just never any that have clung to an unfinished pot interior.
ed
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Ang3lfir3
Omono
lol that's .... just ... just ... i don't know what to say .....
@Rob -- can use you use specially designed miniature scale tape measure to truly demonstrate the size .... this is ridiculous... on second thought..... maybe you shouldn't bother
Victrinia Ensor
Omono
If you need scale... here's some scale. It seems counter productive to be snarky to someone who has been trying to be both kind and helpful. Being a long time friend of Rob's, I can tell you I'm pretty familiar with this tree and how "big" it is.
This is from about 4 years ago.
The tree next to it is near enough to as tall as you were asserting it is... 'nuff said.
V
This is from about 4 years ago.
The tree next to it is near enough to as tall as you were asserting it is... 'nuff said.
V
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edprocoat
Masterpiece
Ang3flr3, I do not know what to say either as i have no idea what your implying.
Victrinia Ensor, Snarky? are you trying to imply that I was insulting his plants? I had mentioned they are beautiful. I do happen to be a contractor and know the size of bricks and spacing of mortar common to code used in the industry. In the above picture according to brick dimensions, which are 2" 1/4" inch tall the procumbens in the picture would be about 16" 1/2" tall pot and all. This is much easier to gauge as its right next to the bricks, also the tall tree on the right would be 42" tall. I guess you are the type who takes everything as an insult, but I was being honest in my estimate of the size. I guess am not used to dealing with people who are so sensitive about unimportant issues, things like this are the reason that every time in the past 40 years of my dealing with Bonsai that I think I might go check out a Bonsai club I end up deciding I would have to deal with ones like you two who would take a question or an observation as some reason to become irate, sheesh, talk about snarky...
ed
Victrinia Ensor, Snarky? are you trying to imply that I was insulting his plants? I had mentioned they are beautiful. I do happen to be a contractor and know the size of bricks and spacing of mortar common to code used in the industry. In the above picture according to brick dimensions, which are 2" 1/4" inch tall the procumbens in the picture would be about 16" 1/2" tall pot and all. This is much easier to gauge as its right next to the bricks, also the tall tree on the right would be 42" tall. I guess you are the type who takes everything as an insult, but I was being honest in my estimate of the size. I guess am not used to dealing with people who are so sensitive about unimportant issues, things like this are the reason that every time in the past 40 years of my dealing with Bonsai that I think I might go check out a Bonsai club I end up deciding I would have to deal with ones like you two who would take a question or an observation as some reason to become irate, sheesh, talk about snarky...
ed
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
But ed, you can't always tell what the size is based on a photo that you don't know the distance or angle perspective to the comparison item, ie; the fence or brick or outlet, (and it's not an outlet, but a phone jack as a guess). And you did seem to allude that there was some sort of stretching of the truth about the size that these trees were told you that they were. I would never second guess anything from a photo that was explained in text, as pictures can be very misleading.
And to hint so unsubtly that you think this person who is trying to help you, (and is much more experienced than you or I )is fabricating the real size of his trees to impress -leaves you open to such criticism as you've engendered from the respondents that you are annoyed with.
Sorry, just tellin it like I see it.
And to hint so unsubtly that you think this person who is trying to help you, (and is much more experienced than you or I )is fabricating the real size of his trees to impress -leaves you open to such criticism as you've engendered from the respondents that you are annoyed with.
Sorry, just tellin it like I see it.
edprocoat
Masterpiece
JudyB, yes I know its a wall jack, thats actually what I posted, I have installed hundreds of them. Perhaps you should reread what I posted as I was just making an observation about the size of the tree based upon the photos. I never leave that to chance, I place a coke near my tree for size reference, I see many who use a tape measure or a cigarette lighter for a reference when showing the size of their tree trunk. I did not try to belittle his tree at all. If I were of the same mindset as those I just responded to, I could take offense of your assertion " (and is much more experienced than you or I ) " as I am 51 years old and have grown Bonsai since I have been a child, for 41 years now. Admittedly they could be much more devoted, better at producing serious works, more recognized in the Bonsai community etc. , but my not knowing their age or credentials leaves me to doubt they much more experienced than I am, at least as far as years of experience growing bonsai. Now, do not take that as a critisicm, I am just pointing out I have had years of experience growing, maintaining and owning Bonsai. There are many things I am not up to speed on that is shared on this forum, that is why I come here. The many species and different methods used here that are both edifying and enjoyable for me to ingest, thats why I am here.
I feel its a stretch for you to post I suggested he was "fabricating the size of his trees to impress" , hell the pictures alone impressed me! and I stated that clearly. Before I make another enemy here, let me say this post was in response to your post, which from the tone seemed as if you were just trying to be polite and point out my grievous error of judgement, its not like you were calling me snarky .
ed
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edprocoat
Masterpiece
October, Ang3flr3 and Victrinia Ensor, I seemed to have upset you here with what I thought was an honest observation related in a humorous way. I did not intend to invoke your wrath by insulting Octobers Trees, I assume you all missed where I wrote they are beautiful and looked well cared for, so let me repeat it, they are some beautiful trees and they look both healthy and happy as a well cared for tree should.
I want to apologize to you October if you feel I have slighted either your trees or skills, and I would like to extend that apology to your friends Ang3flr3 and Victrinia Ensor for hurting their feelings by the observations I made about your trees, which I truly admire. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings, please forgive me!
ed
I want to apologize to you October if you feel I have slighted either your trees or skills, and I would like to extend that apology to your friends Ang3flr3 and Victrinia Ensor for hurting their feelings by the observations I made about your trees, which I truly admire. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings, please forgive me!
ed
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JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Yes you are correct ed, what I should have said is much more experienced than "I", not you or I. I apologize for that error in judgement to say something about someone that I do not know. I will be more conscious of this in the future.
I am sorry if that was offensive.
It was not my intent... Just trying to be an outside eye to the conversation.
Victrinia Ensor
Omono
First your a photographic Sherlock Holmes and now I'm your enemy? Seriously, you've put way too much thought into this.
I have edited my original response, as I decided to take out any bits that might be taken as less than kind. I refered to you in another thread... where I said I give props for someone at least having the chops to show trees. I did it without bolding up your name though...
So props to you for showing trees.
Have a good day...
V
I have edited my original response, as I decided to take out any bits that might be taken as less than kind. I refered to you in another thread... where I said I give props for someone at least having the chops to show trees. I did it without bolding up your name though...
So props to you for showing trees.
Have a good day...
V
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Ang3lfir3
Omono
just to clear things up for you in the future.... all three of us have studied intently for many years .... I have the least number of years under my belt (aprox 5 hardcore dedicated years) ... each of us has studied with multiple masters , Victrinia [my wife] and I are Daniel Robinson's students and I know that Rob [October] studies with John Romano. We have all also studied under the watchful eyes of other masters as well, tho maybe not as intensely as our main teachers.
Victrinia and I have performed or assisted in several demonstrations and worked on dozens of world class trees ... including assisting with one currently at the famous Huntington collection in California ..... Vic and I are both showing trees in the US National Exhibition.
that should shed some light on our credentials.... there is no anger here.... we simply want to help you and only frustration arises sometimes when honest and constructive feedback is met with a lack of appreciation.... I'm sorry if you feel attacked in any way... that was never anyone's intent...
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october
Masterpiece
Wow.. See what happens when I am not on the site on the weekend.. It's pandemonium...lol....Ed, I actually couldn't tell what your tone was.. I thought it was a postive reply, but I wasn't sure if it was sarcastic.. Sometimes it is tough to tell tone just by reading posts. Thank you for the compliment on my trees. I think that because you are a contractor, you see things that others do not even notice. Oddly enough, I have never thought about the materials used for backgrounds. Actually, it is more the color and neutral patterns that I look for when taking pictures.
Thanks Vic and Ang for posting in the thread. If I thought someone was being disrespectful to either of you, I would absolutely do the same.
Also, you had mentioned about a coke can.. Here are some pics with a coke can and/or my hand. Also, where there is not a coke can, you can tell the size of the tree becasue it is the same area.
Thanks Vic and Ang for posting in the thread. If I thought someone was being disrespectful to either of you, I would absolutely do the same.
Also, you had mentioned about a coke can.. Here are some pics with a coke can and/or my hand. Also, where there is not a coke can, you can tell the size of the tree becasue it is the same area.
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JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Really nice photos, and once again, really nice trees!
Victrinia Ensor
Omono
Coke AND Coke Zero... stick to coke... you know you need the calories. lol
V
lolV
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