Cat litter as soil

[Beetleman72]

I have read that cat litter works just as well or better as akadamea as an inorganic soil. Does anyone know of any good brands of litter to use? Or other sources of inorganic soils?

 

[Dav4]

...only in Europe...and maybe comparable with turface, not akadama. Bottom line- don't use kitty litter for bonsai soil.

 

[Stan Kengai]

When you're reading articles giving bonsai advice, always be sure to take into account where the author is located, their local climate, and what's available to them. Most of the people espousing the attributes of kitty litter are from Europe, where their litter is different than ours here in the US. If you're looking for a cheap alternative to akadama or turface, I'd recommend diatomite (NAPA auto "OilDri", e.g.). There are no absolute substitutes for akadama, but there are certainly products that work adequately that are much cheaper and easier to acquire. As with akadama, I don't recommend using the OilDri by itself. You should always mix with coarse sand or scoria (lava rock).

 

[Vance Wood]

In this day and age there are a lot of things that are being manufactured and sold as cat litter, some of which should not be used for bonsai soil. In the old days, twenty-years ago or so, Kitty Litter was for the most part calcined clay. This is a substance that is made of clay fired in a furnace so that it remains absorbant but is slow to break down. Now; you find all sorts of things. The important thing you need is a clay-like product like Turface, if you can find it, or akadama, if you can find it and finance it, or Schultz ceramic soil conditioner, if you can find it. Oil Dry is possible but it breaks down too rapidly to be useful for a long term bonsai soil in trees with repotting schedules in excess of five years. I don't wish to argue with those who recomend diatomite if they have good experience with it but it is not the same thing as Turface. Diotomite is essentially a product made of fossile sea life and primarily calicum. This is not clay wich is an important element in a soil as it provides a cation exchange capacity and helps stabilize the soils ability to hold fertilize without leeching it out quite so quickly.

 

[Beetleman72]

Diatomite aka diatomaceous earth? I actually have a large bag of diatomaceous earth that I bought for spider control. I don't think that the form that I have it in could be used as soil though. The bag that I have is a very very fine powder. What is the best inorganic soil mix? From what ive read it seems that akademia and fine lava rock are the best, but in what approximate proportions?

 

[Jessf]

look for shultz aquatic soil. Additionally, I saw some granite dust that looked suitable, it would need to be sifted well but the final product would be worth a try.

 

[TheSteve]

Well this should get everyone riled up.... I use cat litter all the time. I've got collected trees that have spent the last 5 years sitting in it (which reminds me about repotting it next year). There are still cat litters that are made from clay and work well. If you're going to use it then read the "ingredients" before you buy it. It should be something unscented and non clumping. As Vance says, many aren't made from fired clay and so you need to check to make sure.

And now I'll sit back and wait for the spears....

 

[daygan]

interesting. what brands still use fired clay granules that you know of / use?

 

[TheSteve]

Typically I use the wal-mart brand. Not sure if that's available over there though. There is one issue with cat litter that I've seen other people have but I've never experienced: if there is a sudden hard, prolonged freeze the water in the granules will extrude and cause the litter to swell out of the pot. I've seen pictures and it's rather strange looking but doesn't seem to have a lasting effect on either the tree or the litter itself. Unlike akadama which often turns to mush.

 

[daygan]

Yeah, I wasn't thinking so much for myself - I've got my diatomite source that works well enough for me so far... As far as freezing, I've had that same thing with diatomaceous earth because water crystalizes and expands when it freezes, so it expands in such a way that the water and granules have larger air gaps between each other (like with snow) and some of the surface granules can spill out (or just sort of sit solidified above the edge of the pot). Not really an issue as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for the interesting information.

 

[milehigh_7]

Here is just one of the many threads you will find on substrates. http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?3447-Pro-s-Choice-equivilant-to-Turface-MVP

Most experience with American Kitty litter is really poor from all that I have read.

 

[Vance Wood]

Here is just one of the many threads you will find on substrates. http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?3447-Pro-s-Choice-equivilant-to-Turface-MVP

Most experience with American Kitty litter is really poor from all that I have read.

The only Kitty Liter that I would consider using is Hartz Mountian, at least the last time I saw the stuff which was many years ago. The problem is that it is necessary to provide the kinds of chemical characteristics that clay provides, specifically a "Cation Exchange Capacity". Lava has this trait, but the good finely crushed lava is becomming difficult to locate.

 

[misfit11]

Well this should get everyone riled up.... I use cat litter all the time. I've got collected trees that have spent the last 5 years sitting in it (which reminds me about repotting it next year). There are still cat litters that are made from clay and work well. If you're going to use it then read the "ingredients" before you buy it. It should be something unscented and non clumping. As Vance says, many aren't made from fired clay and so you need to check to make sure.

And now I'll sit back and wait for the spears....

Me, too, Steve!! I got the "Special Kitty" cat litter from Walmart and actually have kept a trident maple cutting in it for over a year now with regular watering and I haven't noticed any breakdown. NOT ONE BIT!!! (I did sift out the fines mind you and I think if I didn't, they could look like breakdown and lend someone to believe that it turns to mush). I posted about this product a while back and I got "the spears" thrown at me that you speak of. Whatever.... I simply cannot get Turface here (not without paying up the wazoo for shipping anyway) and akadama would be too expensive to use as an amendment in the grow boxes I use the kitty litter in (I do use akadama for my "finished" trees in bonsai pots, though).

As a caveat, I do live in coastal CA, so this may be a contributing factor. People in other parts of the country would have harder freezes than we do here and this may lead to breakdown that I haven't experienced. HOWEVER, people that replied to my post said they had it turn to mush IMMEDIATELY. I call B.S. Either they didn't really try it or they got a different product. Here's the thread:

http://www.bonsaisite.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23738&hl=+special++kitty&fromsearch=1

So, yeah, go ahead and keep saying that there isn't a kitty litter here in the U.S. that works for bonsai and that anyone who uses it is an idiot. I'll keep buying my $3.99 a 25lb. bag of "Special Kitty" and get great results.

 

[Poink88]

We probably read the same tutorial. LOL

When I was starting (not too long ago), I experimented with Special Kitty cat liter from Walmart. I later learned it wasn't as good as Oil-Dri (also from Walmart). But learned later yet again that Oil-Dri is also not nearly as good as Turface. I use Turface MVP now but in a pinch, won't hesitate to use Oil-Dri if I have no choice (hey, it is available in Walmart! LOL )

 

[Stan Kengai]

In this day and age there are a lot of things that are being manufactured and sold as cat litter, some of which should not be used for bonsai soil. In the old days, twenty-years ago or so, Kitty Litter was for the most part calcined clay. This is a substance that is made of clay fired in a furnace so that it remains absorbant but is slow to break down. Now; you find all sorts of things. The important thing you need is a clay-like product like Turface, if you can find it, or akadama, if you can find it and finance it, or Schultz ceramic soil conditioner, if you can find it. Oil Dry is possible but it breaks down too rapidly to be useful for a long term bonsai soil in trees with repotting schedules in excess of five years. I don't wish to argue with those who recomend diatomite if they have good experience with it but it is not the same thing as Turface. Diotomite is essentially a product made of fossile sea life and primarily calicum. This is not clay wich is an important element in a soil as it provides a cation exchange capacity and helps stabilize the soils ability to hold fertilize without leeching it out quite so quickly.

If you didn't wish to argue, you should have stopped there. I don't want to argue either, but I do want others to have the facts. And the fact is diatomite is very comparable to calcined clay products like Turface, but is inferior to akadama. It is not true that only clay based product have a cation exchange capacity, as you assert. Any material that is capable of adsorption (not mis-spelled) has some level of ion exchange capacity. What makes the difference in the levels of capacity is the chemical structure (polarity in particular) of the material. Diatomite is typically composed of about 95% silica, a polar molecule, and it has a cation exchange capacity of 5.5 milliequivalents/100 grams. Calcined clay products have a CEC of about 9.0 meq/100g. This difference is easily overcome by the use of scoria in your soil mix or by using fertilizers with humic acid. Additionally, diatomite is about 1/4 the cost of calcined clay, and diatomite will repel most insects from the soil surface. Moreover, diatomite has a higher water retention than clay.

I'm not saying diatomite is the best thing since sliced bread. But for the money, in my climate, it is very comparable to calcined clay as a bulk filler in bonsai soil.

Beetleman, I think we waste too much time arguing over soil ingredients (see above ) and compositions, when a far more important aspect often gets no mention at all. And that is uniform particle size. As long as you use a durable, water retentive product (scoria, calcined clay, pumice, diatomite) for at least 50% of your mix, and you sift all ingredients to a uniform particle size, your plants will do fine. You'll always have to adjust the retentiveness of your mix to suit your climate, watering habits, stage of development, and plant needs.

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

Srsly... I'm not sure why people don't just use straight pumice if they have a question about what to use and no access to akadama... pumice is fantastic training medium.

V

 

[TheSteve]

You are absolutely right. the kicker being if I want anything bigger than a quart bag of it I'd have to drive my truck 50 miles (one way) at 10 mpg to pick up some at $40/yard. I love pumice, just not the availability. It's been my quest for the last few months to find a supplier close by. I'm failing miserably.

 

[rockm]

"I'm not sure why people don't just use straight pumice if they have a question about what to use and no access to akadama... pumice is fantastic training medium."

Srsly, over here on the right coast, pumice in any quantity, or that doesn't have to be broken down with a sledge, is mostly a rare and expensive find.

Use cat litter at your own risk...if you live where freezes are the rule in the winter, you will regret it. If you live in an area that doesn't freeze, you can use just about ANYTHING, including crushed glass or ground up vinyl, as a soil, provided you water and fertilize it adequately...Just because you CAN use it, doesn't make it the greatest soil, though...

 

[misfit11]

Srsly... I'm not sure why people don't just use straight pumice if they have a question about what to use and no access to akadama... pumice is fantastic training medium.

V

I def do, Vic. Pumice is great. I use it with equal parts kitty litter and lava rock in my grow boxes and equal parts akadama and lava in my bonsai pots.

I guess the drawback to straight pumice, though, would be that it dries out too quickly. I need something with more water retention (like akadama or calcined clay) in my climate.

 

[misfit11]

Use cat litter at your own risk...if you live where freezes are the rule in the winter, you will regret it. If you live in an area that doesn't freeze, you can use just about ANYTHING, including crushed glass or ground up vinyl, as a soil, provided you water and fertilize it adequately...Just because you CAN use it, doesn't make it the greatest soil, though...

It freezes here. Just not as much and as hard as it does in the rest of the country. It regularly gets down into the low 20s every winter and I still have not seen any effect on the kitty litter's ability to maintain its structure.