Cedar Literati

[Smoke]

With inspiration from the new book as well as my penchant for plants that will serve me in my Literati endeavors, I came across this Cedar. While at the nursery today looking at material for the other thread, where I promised to show pictures of the import elms, I came across this cedar. Cedrus deodara 'Karl Fuchs', or Himalayan Cedar.
It's very beat up, will take some time to get it healthy again, but I got time and the trunk is nice and I think the branches will be also.

 

[Smoke]

I went around the corner looking for some other things and spotted this. I think it will make a nice accent for the cedar. A pretty healthy Chojubai. Made an offer...$100.00 for both.

 

[TyroTinker]

It will be interesting to see the results of the work you are going to put into it
Especially that cedar.. cool cultivar name my name is Carl didn't know there was a tree with the same name

 

[just.wing.it]

Wow, they are both very interesting!
No doubt that cedar needs some tlc...
Chojubai has a gnarly little base!

Edit:
Actually they both have gnarly, cool bases!

 

[Aeast]

Cool cedar species, I had to look it up as I have never heard of it.

 

[Smoke]

You know...when you make those first cuts.....
...branches fall away....
You keep looking and say...this one has to go...
and this one has to go..better keep this one.
Then the wire...still not sure of your decisions..
well this is it for now...all I can do now is water and pray.



Eventually, these two marked in red will probably go. For now they were very healthy branches and needed to gather strength so for now they will stay. The top is pretty strong and I know that will be improved quickly.

 

[Paradox]

I like the chojubai

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

You know...when you make those first cuts.....
...branches fall away....
You keep looking and say...this one has to go...
and this one has to go..better keep this one.
Then the wire...still not sure of your decisions..
well this is it for now...all I can do now is water and pray.

View attachment 159052

Eventually, these two marked in red will probably go. For now they were very healthy branches and needed to gather strength so for now they will stay. The top is pretty strong and I know that will be improved quickly.
View attachment 159053

Hi Smoke,
Great purchasing. Especially like the Cedar.
Charles

 

[Smoke]

Hi Smoke,
Great purchasing. Especially like the Cedar.
Charles

Thanks, little wonky right now but it will come around.

 

[my nellie]

... ...I think it will make a nice accent for the cedar. A pretty healthy Chojubai.

I do like both your purchases!
And I believe you will make a nice literati and a nice accent, too.
Everyone will be looking forward to their training.

You know...when you make those first cuts.....
...branches fall away....
You keep looking and say...this one has to go... ...better keep this one... ...Then the wire...still not sure of your decisions..
... ...they were very healthy branches and needed to gather strength so for now they will stay. The top is pretty strong... ...

Al, I have said already that I will never stop considering myself a novice...
So, for my novice eye and my conservative approach the green you have removed looks like it was enough? more than enough? very much?
What would you advise (regarding this species) concerning removing branches and also the very first root reduction/repotting?
I have already one failed attempt on a Cedrus deodara.
Thank you very much!

 

[Cadillactaste]

Al...you mentioned getting the cedar healthy again...then chopped and removed branches. Just curious...do you feel this species can handle all this at once and not Vigorious to begin with? (Dumb question I reckon...or you wouldn't have done it.)

Wish you well with the literati..and the quince is cool as well!

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Al...you mentioned getting the cedar healthy again...then chopped and removed branches. Just curious...do you feel this species can handle all this at once and not Vigorious to begin with? (Dumb question I reckon...or you wouldn't have done it.)

Wish you well with the literati..and the quince is cool as well!

Hi all,

50% rule?? Cut more than 50% roots or top and you really have to look after it for years with conifers. I am still learning but that be my rule anyway.
Charles

 

[petegreg]

The time of season you chose for repotting of your cedar is right OK. I acquired one C. libani brevifolia last year in summer and went for late summer repotting. It didn't skip the beat even in zone 6A. First winter spent mulched in the ground. Very bad winter it was, three weeks of temps going down to -20℃, lost some pines left unprotected on my balcony what I didn't expect. I worried about cedar and mulberies in the ground because we're a little bit north of their natural distribution but they are all OK.
But enough kidding...

Something about cedars, true cedars. They grow quite slowly, both foliage and roots. Roots are pretty touchy. This is my second one. The first I had some six years was becoming looking like pretty nice feminine shohin. Was killed by late frost. Shame, I shuffled maples and forgot this one. Once they drop all needles they may or may not come back to life.
Due to slow growth I have never pinched them. They back bud just fine and no problem to shorten branches down to suitable small branchlet.
Here's mine year after year to show how slow they are. Repotted last summer, it was so rootbound I was afraid of its survival, not too much old soil to remove, new front chosen, it came wired, so some new bents were needed...and the wire has not started biting in yet...


I think at least two of members here have some nice cedars, @MichaelS, and @Eric Schrader.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Man, did you reach the "anger" stage of grieving when you got this cedar on the turntable?

 

[Wilson]

Good start! I know we all appreciate learning from your projects.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Ok Al, I'm gonna pull a @Si Nguyen on you. Every time I see Si, he comes up with crazy design ideas for some of my trees that are completely off the wall... but then after I think about them for a year or two I start to wonder whether or not he had a good idea

Here's your design with the two branches that need to go (and I agree they need to go eventually).



I wondered what it would look like if you were able to sweep that lowest branch up and turn it into a second trunk. It initially grated on me like fingernails on a chalkboard... but the more I look at it the more there is something there that appeals to me in a very nontraditional way.

Just a crazy idea to throw into the idea hopper.

 

[cbroad]

@petegreg
I don't keep many conifers, but after working at a nursery for over 10 years, Cedrus' are probably one of the only conifers (excluding Taxodium) that I've seen come back after dropping all of their needles.

I've seen some pretty mangled root balls fall apart on a 4-5" caliper Weeping Blue Atlas, not get watered for a week, then get crammed into a 25gal pot, come back and be nice and full after about a month. I'd say they are pretty tough and forgiving!

 

[Paulpash]

Out of all the cedars I liked brevifolia the most and deodora the least. The main reasons are it's a naturally droopy variety and keeping neat pads with it is difficult. It has bigger needles than atlantica & brevifolia and it doesn't have the neat clustered growth the others display. I'll be interested to see if you can tame the floppy growth better than I fared.

As @cbroad has said they can respond badly initially to root work and you really get anxious if it drops all it's needles. The best way to avoid this is always work the roots as the branch tips start to brighten up and extend. What about jinning the straight top and using the first branch as your main trunk line? You know that straight section up there will always draw your eye to it don't you? The first branch can be bent up and either use thick wire n guys to get some great movement or, if it's immovable, cut back again to a side branch and wire that.

 

[petegreg]

@petegreg
I don't keep many conifers, but after working at a nursery for over 10 years, Cedrus' are probably one of the only conifers (excluding Taxodium) that I've seen come back after dropping all of their needles.

I've seen some pretty mangled root balls fall apart on a 4-5" caliper Weeping Blue Atlas, not get watered for a week, then get crammed into a 25gal pot, come back and be nice and full after about a month. I'd say they are pretty tough and forgiving!

Right, I said may or may not, mine didn't. Discarded it after long long searching and reading when the bark on branches and trunk started shriveling.

 

[JoeR]

Man that chojubai is a stupid nice find! I'm jelly!