Celtis x sinensis/africana

Messages
182
Reaction score
91
Location
S Africa
Just wanted to share this nice tree, collected Dec, now at the end of summer. There was a point where I spent half hour every day to thin out the clumps of buds it was making, leaving only one at a spot for about two weeks, after that the weak shoots came and I covered it in plastic inside the hothouse to help with the evaporation of water, just so that the roots could catch up
20161221_100233.jpg 20161221_101853.jpg 20161231_104918.jpg 20161231_104926.jpg
 
Messages
182
Reaction score
91
Location
S Africa
I would like to keep the trailing trunk towards the back, carve all the ends, and have the canopy come down low and wide. It has this In-your-face stability, as if its saying Im here and I have been for a long time . There is a lot of power in the trunk and the stately height at the front which I love
The bark is smooth and grey like that of C. africana and although the leaves are downy now, they were the smooth leaves from C. sinensis, probably just different from the stress/shock
 
Messages
182
Reaction score
91
Location
S Africa
What I have trouble with is branch placement, where and how many? Where should I carve and how much? How deep? Is it even that important to carve taper into the back trunk simply because its already going to the back?
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
8,208
Reaction score
13,526
Location
OC, CA
USDA Zone
10A
I might have cut farther, given how aggressively it is budding. You've got a lot of extra trunk that you're going to want to get rid of.

Did you have thoughts of your main trunk line? I think once you decide on that, you will have a better idea of your branch development needs.
 
Messages
182
Reaction score
91
Location
S Africa
The tallest upright trunk in front? Was thinking about a tall tree, basically in the current state - Im open to suggestions, what would you guys do with it?
 
Messages
182
Reaction score
91
Location
S Africa
So middle march I decided to do a hack on this tree and chop it back top and bottom. It was late summer here then which is not the best time but I couldnt move the tree around, it wasnt holding any water anymore and it was going out the top of the greenhouse :oops:.

So I hoisted it up with considerable effort and suspended it by a thick rope like a form of horticulture acrobatics. Shook the soil out which had no organics left, sprayed out all residues and trimmed about 50% off and then cut the top back to a little less than the desired shape. I also defoliated half of what was left.
It went into a wider pot that was the same depth, all organic this time as in my heat it really sucks up the water.
Attached are pics of the trimmed and washed out tree, and the more bushy tree wass two weeks ago, start of April, if you zoom in on the drainage grids you can see some root tips starting to poke out :cool::D

2018-03-04_101827.jpg 2018-03-04_101819.jpg 20180304_105515.jpg
And 2...3ish weeks later
IMG-20180402-WA0072.jpeg
 
Messages
182
Reaction score
91
Location
S Africa
Can anyone please advise on how to work back the trunk stubs to a more natural transition of taper? This will be done in winter before buds start pushing but I want to find out soon enough. What I am picturing is that they will have to come down 2 or 3 inches, then secondary trunks/ thick branches will have to be grown out to thumb thickness, this pot can be put on the ground in my growing bed for that

Could anyone help me out here with a virtual paint job
 

thumblessprimate1

Masterpiece
Messages
3,807
Reaction score
6,370
Location
DALLAS
I would thread graft to get branch exactly where you want indicated approximately where orange circles are. Orange lines just to give an idea of where the trunks grow. Would eventually chop again to transition to new trunks.
20180417_054459.jpg

Try to grow branches like the lines in blue.
20180417_054931.jpg

Lots of time involved methinks. Would graft some roots too if needed.
 

Tieball

Omono
Messages
1,573
Reaction score
1,292
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
Healthy tree...your climate must be perfect for growth. Do the new buds pop out just from the “ring” areas on the trunk? So any additional chopping would be targeted at ring intervals?
 
Last edited:

Tieball

Omono
Messages
1,573
Reaction score
1,292
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
So middle march I decided to do a hack on this tree and chop it back top and bottom. It was late summer here then which is not the best time but I couldnt move the tree around, it wasnt holding any water anymore and it was going out the top of the greenhouse :oops:.

So I hoisted it up with considerable effort and suspended it by a thick rope like a form of horticulture acrobatics. Shook the soil out which had no organics left, sprayed out all residues and trimmed about 50% off and then cut the top back to a little less than the desired shape. I also defoliated half of what was left.
It went into a wider pot that was the same depth, all organic this time as in my heat it really sucks up the water.
Attached are pics of the trimmed and washed out tree, and the more bushy tree wass two weeks ago, start of April, if you zoom in on the drainage grids you can see some root tips starting to poke out :cool::D

View attachment 187328 View attachment 187327 View attachment 187325
And 2...3ish weeks later
View attachment 187326
Nice...really healthy set of roots growing. I guess cutting back again, after the original chop, does work out okay. I wondered.
 

BonsaiMatt

Yamadori
Messages
92
Reaction score
199
Location
Maryland
USDA Zone
7a
Can anyone please advise on how to work back the trunk stubs to a more natural transition of taper? This will be done in winter before buds start pushing but I want to find out soon enough. What I am picturing is that they will have to come down 2 or 3 inches, then secondary trunks/ thick branches will have to be grown out to thumb thickness, this pot can be put on the ground in my growing bed for that

Could anyone help me out here with a virtual paint job
Graham Potter had some great videos on carving on YouTube. Watch them if you haven't already. Way better than reading someone's description on a forum. A picture is worth a thousand words, and YouTube is priceless ?
 
Messages
182
Reaction score
91
Location
S Africa
I would thread graft to get branch exactly where you want indicated approximately where orange circles are. Orange lines just to give an idea of where the trunks grow. Would eventually chop again to transition to new trunks.
Try to grow branches like the lines in blue.
Lots of time involved methinks. Would graft some roots too if needed.
It backbuds like crazy so I will select and let grow, I thinned out the branches quite a bit in the beginningo_O-- and thanks a million for the virtual, I was staring myself blind at the tree unable to see the transition sections / and at how to approach the third leaning trunk --suddenly it seems simple :D thank you for that!

Nice...really healthy set of roots growing. I guess cutting back again, after the original chop, does work out okay. I wondered.
Well its been a little over a year since its started growing and these things are weeds here. C. sinensis is an invader here and its hybridizing with our native C. africana which is a little slower, weaker and a little more susceptible to disease, so this is best of both - - hybrid vigor at its best! The general idea is to have it produce finer growth now before winter, it will harden off before then and more importantly before it becomes coarse twigs.

Healthy tree...your climate must be perfect for growth. Do the new buds pop out just from the “ring” areas on the trunk? So any additional chopping would be targeted at ring intervals?
It has alternate budding but those rings are a characteristic of C. africana, the bud will be somewhere on that line


Thanks to all for the responses!
 

Tieball

Omono
Messages
1,573
Reaction score
1,292
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
It has alternate budding but those rings are a characteristic of C. africana, the bud will be somewhere on that line.
Thanks. I have Celtis Sinensis growing and they also have those rings. It’s likely that my Celtis might also bud from the rings also....something for me to keep in mind when trunk chopping. If there’s anything else you learned from the chopping and pruning I’m open for information. Even though my trees are a different Celtis there might be tree-response similarities.
 

Similar threads


Top Bottom