Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Boulevard' - Help With Styling

[coh]

I'm hoping to get some thoughts on this chamaecyparis pisifera 'boulevard' that I picked up about a year ago. I was attracted to the graceful, literati-ish trunk line and it had quite a few branches to work with. However, it was a little weak at purchase, with a bunch of brownish foliage. I gave it some TLC and got the foliage healthy and growing, then did some wiring to bring the main branches down and separate them a bit for better light distribution. Now I'm thinking about some more substantial work.

Here is a series of photos taken recently, the tree was rotated clockwise for each new photo. It's a bit messy because I didn't wire out the smaller branches, instead just allowing the tree to grow last season after wiring the main branches. But I think the basic structure is pretty evident.



I haven't picked a definite front but photos 1 and 4 seem to show the trunk to best advantage. I'm a little uncertain about how much to reduce the foliage/branching...whether to go for a sparser literati style or leave more branches for more of an informal upright type look. I'm interested in thoughts on this. If anyone feels like producing a virt, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

 

[daygan]

Nice tree! I like front #1. If it were mine, I might only do minimal changes, including rounding out the top just a little and thinning out the bottom right-hand branch. Maybe something like this:

 

[coh]

Thanks for your thoughts. Rounding/flattening the top is definitely in the future, I only left it tall/pointy so as to preserve all options.

Any other suggestions?

Chris

 

[JudyB]

I had one of these that passed last year. To be honest it probably was only a mediocre tree, but fed my desire for a formal upright (idea- it wasn't perfect). I was pruning by the twist pinch method for a few years, then read an article that said that this will weaken the tree, and to conduct pruning instead of pinching. The year after I started the pruning method, it died. Coincidence? Probably, we had a super hot year last year. But I'm not totally convinced that the pinching method is a bad one. There is a nice one profiled in the book by Dave Joyce, The Art of Natural Bonsai. It's a bit too manicured, but he also used the twist pinching method.
I do like the bark on these. Good luck with yours, I think you already have the basis of a style there.

 

[mcpesq817]

I had one of these that passed last year. To be honest it probably was only a mediocre tree, but fed my desire for a formal upright (idea- it wasn't perfect). I was pruning by the twist pinch method for a few years, then read an article that said that this will weaken the tree, and to conduct pruning instead of pinching. The year after I started the pruning method, it died. Coincidence? Probably, we had a super hot year last year. But I'm not totally convinced that the pinching method is a bad one. There is a nice one profiled in the book by Dave Joyce, The Art of Natural Bonsai. It's a bit too manicured, but he also used the twist pinching method.
I do like the bark on these. Good luck with yours, I think you already have the basis of a style there.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I bought a decent sized one a few years ago from Meehan's when I was just starting out - for what it's worth Martha Meehan said that you have to continually pinch it.

I ended up putting mine in the ground to help fatten up and have a nice formal upright. After 3-4 years in the ground, the tree had grown a few feet taller and the base had actually spread out very nicely - the trunk itself, however, barely thickened. The other problem I noticed was that even keeping low branches, a lot got shaded out and you end up with unusable foliage only at the end of long branches. Since I'm not all that confident about its ability to backbud, I've come to the conclusion that this species is not the easiest to work with for bonsai. The bark and foliage are very nice though.

 

[coh]

The species definitely has a reputation as "difficult", one of the main problems being that it tends to not backbud (and that may be understating it). Nursery plants often look great superficially but the interior is usually full of dead foliage and branches, with all the living foliage way out at the branch tips.

This particular tree was obviously managed well in the past. In terms of the current style - it seems to me to be a "pseduo (or wannabe) literati". Somewhere in between true literati and more of an informal upright. I think the trunk (and maybe branches) could support something similar to one of these approaches:

1. Rob's (October's ) "Straight trunked bunjin"

2. A fuller informal upright, this from a 2 year old post on IBC:

I suspect that the latter style (and that tree is actually a boulevard cypress, see http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t7144-chamaecypharis-pisifera-boulevard-baby-blue ) may be more easily attained and maintained, given the species tendencies (somewhat coarse foliage/growth and lack of backbudding). Maybe there is another approach that I'm not seeing...

Chris

 

[mcpesq817]

Hope I didn't come across as too negative. Your tree definitely has been well managed over time, and I think either of those examples would be good models. The one on IBC is very nice too. I think with creative wiring to foreshorten the branches, a nice bonsai is indeed possible.

 

[coh]

Hope I didn't come across as too negative. Your tree definitely has been well managed over time, and I think either of those examples would be good models. The one on IBC is very nice too. I think with creative wiring to foreshorten the branches, a nice bonsai is indeed possible.

Nope, not at all! And I hope I didn't given the impression that I felt you were being negative...I basically agree with your comments about the species being difficult. There's a good reason why you don't see many of them in bonsai shows...

Chris

 

[JudyB]

FWIW, I had some success with backbudding on mine while I was pinching on a regular basis.

 

[october]

I like pic 1 for the front as well. It is said that a tree is either a bunjin or it isn't. I have found this to be close to 100% truth. However, I did a virt of this tree as a bunjin and I was not completely on board with it. However, it could just be becasue it was a virt and not an actual styling. Although I am leaning towards just keeping the top 1/3 of the treee for a traditional literati. I kind of would hate to see that nice bottom anchoring branch on the right be removed. It is in such a perfect spot. Also, I did notice that with this front, it seems there is a lack of branches in the middle of the tree. No side branches, but back branches. Probably not a big deal. You could pull the top ones down and maybe swing a branch from the back around to the front.

One thing I do think. The somewhat messy foliage might actually be an advantage on this tree. No matter what style, I think the foliage pads should be a little rough and not perfect. Pads with a little wildness to them.

lol... I don't know if I helped at all here..

Rob

 

[coh]

Rob,

Yes, it does help - thanks for your comments. You verbalized something that I think I agree with - that lower right branch (picture 1) is excellently placed. It is also healthy with a nice structure and would be difficult to remove.

You also noticed the problem with lack of branching. I modified photo 1 to include labels for the first 6 branches. Branch 1 is actually on the back left (BL), a little below the branch you referred to (#2). Then branch 3 is off to the left, followed by branch 4 which is almost invisible in the back. Branch 5 extends to the front. Branch 6 is the next branch on the right. So there is quite a gap on the right side of the tree between branch 2 and 6. Branches 3,4,5 could be manipulated to partially fill the gap, or the tree could be turned to change the appearance of that gap.

Chris

 

[october]

It might be best to style this tree sooner than later. I have never seen one of these that didn't have a ton of dead foliage on it. The sooner you get the structure set up, the better. This way, you can start controlling and chasing back growth. Which is crucial with this tree.

Rob

 

[coh]

Yep...left to their own devices, these trees push the foliage further and further out on the branch tips, and then don't backbud...which = "screwed!". So I definitely want to chart a course and get started this season. I think the process is also going to include a repot into a somewhat larger container, to help strengthen the tree. Current pot might be OK for display but is somewhat small for developnment and drains a little slower than I would like.

Chris

 

[Paradox]

I agree with Daygan and October with the number # 1 pic as the front.

I am not familiar with the species so I cant really help with the rest.

 

[xray360]

I had one of these that passed last year. To be honest it probably was only a mediocre tree, but fed my desire for a formal upright (idea- it wasn't perfect). I was pruning by the twist pinch method for a few years, then read an article that said that this will weaken the tree, and to conduct pruning instead of pinching. The year after I started the pruning method, it died. Coincidence? Probably, we had a super hot year last year. But I'm not totally convinced that the pinching method is a bad one. There is a nice one profiled in the book by Dave Joyce, The Art of Natural Bonsai. It's a bit too manicured, but he also used the twist pinching method.
I do like the bark on these. Good luck with yours, I think you already have the basis of a style there.

I also have a boulevard and notice if you cut the foliage with shears the whole shoot would die back to where it grew from. .

 

[JudyB]

Like I said, I was doing well with mine, till I read a post (can't find it now to link...) over on BSG where Boon said that if you pinch the tips, it'll weaken and die over time. He said it must be pruned... Sooo, now I don't have to pinch, as the pruning took care of that problem. Deado treeo.
I'll see if I can find that thread.

 

[JudyB]

OK, found it, here is the link to the thread on BSG about the pruning and pinching of these trees.
http://bonsaistudygroup.com/conifer-bonsai-discussion/blvd-cypress-repot/

BTW, I don't mean to confer that the method that Boon lays out is wrong (obviously, it works for him) the cypress in this thread is impressive. I just found that it didn't work for me. Could be that I did something incorrectly or it was bad timing.

I hope that this is a helpful link about these trees.

 

[october]

OK, found it, here is the link to the thread on BSG about the pruning and pinching of these trees.
http://bonsaistudygroup.com/conifer-bonsai-discussion/blvd-cypress-repot/

BTW, I don't mean to confer that the method that Boon lays out is wrong (obviously, it works for him) the cypress in this thread is impressive. I just found that it didn't work for me. Could be that I did something incorrectly or it was bad timing.

I hope that this is a helpful link about these trees.

Hi Judy, I don't have this type of tree, but I do not think you are doing anything wrong. It is most likely the stage. Boons tree is pretty old and pretty much a "finished" tree. The foliage and branches are old and the structure is set. So, when it grows, it is probably easier to determine what to prune and how. Just another reason why structure is very important in bonsai. The Japanese structuring principles are not only in place for looks, but health and pruning reasons.

Rob

 

[fore]

Don't feel too bad Judy, I too lost my Boulevard. I dislike this species due to the limitations Chris has mentioned. And sorry too Chris, I have nothing to add exc. agreeing with bending the branches so the foliage is closer to the trunk. Good Luck mate

 

[coh]

OK, found it, here is the link to the thread on BSG about the pruning and pinching of these trees.
http://bonsaistudygroup.com/conifer-bonsai-discussion/blvd-cypress-repot/

BTW, I don't mean to confer that the method that Boon lays out is wrong (obviously, it works for him) the cypress in this thread is impressive. I just found that it didn't work for me. Could be that I did something incorrectly or it was bad timing.

I hope that this is a helpful link about these trees.

Thanks for posting that link, Judy. I don't remember seeing that thread. It's a beautiful tree (and what a great base). But I'm more confused after reading the thread! Boon says "if the tip is cut off, the branch will die back to the next intersection. if the tips are pinched off, it will take 2 year for that branch to die off." And also "Pinching does not promote new buds." So now I don't know what to do in that regard! If pruning and pinching both lead to shoot die back and do not promote new buds, what do you do?

I do have a few of these so I guess I'll just have to do some experimenting with the test subjects.