Changing Out Clay Prebonsai Soil To Regular Potting Soil

mrcasey

Mame
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Early last fall, I bought some largish cryptomeria and hinoki cypresses (about 7 gallons each) and just
lopped the tops and heeled them in for the winter. The trees came growing in field clay wrapped in burlap. I'd like to get them into regular 5 gallon nursery pots. Which would be my best option?

1. Saw the root balls down to size and squeeze them into 5 gal pots still in field clay.
2. Saw the root balls down to size, bare root the trees, replace with potting soil, and squeeze into 5 gal pots.
3. Something else - like saw roots down to size and half bare root with bonsai substrate.
 

sorce

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I would ask @johng about the crypto...
And @Vance Wood about the hinoki.

2 different monsters!

And that clay is a Beeeeoch!

Sorce
 

Dav4

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Personally, I'd work toward removing the clay soil first before doing any cutting. I'd take a hose and a root hook and start to slowly wash and pick away the clay. B and B stock often times don't have lots of roots so you need to preserve what you have. Shoot to remove maybe a 3rd of the clay to expose the ends of the roots. Plant in an oversized container with bonsai soil and see how it grows. If it grows well, work them again next year... if not, wait two years. I've worked with clay B and B material and it is truly a pain in the ass.
 

Bonsai Nut

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I just spent 3.5 hours yesterday transplanting an extremely root-bound crepe myrtle from a 15 gallon nursery pot, LOL. Extreme PITA - and it wasn't even in clay.

With conifers, before you dive in and start cutting, I would see how much soil I could wash off with a hose. Because clay is such poor substrate, you may find the root density pretty low and you can wash much/most of the clay away without touching a root rake. Try not to use a jet but a softer setting like a fan. Don't be too anal and try to remove every last bit of old soil in the first attempt. If you can get rid of half the old soil and gently tease out the roots so that you can move the tree into a lower, broader nursery pot with the ends of the roots in good soil you are on your way and next year you can focus on getting the interior cleaned out. Try not to trim the roots at all the first time around if you can avoid it.
 

M. Frary

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I bought 2 hinoki cypress balled in Clay. 4 years ago.
I'm not sure I should tell you this but both of them I hosed all of the clay off. Basically barerooting them.
They did fine. Until voles ate them last winter.
I did the work in late spring when they were actively growing.
I also do this to junipers.
 
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I bought 2 hinoki cypress balled in Clay. 4 years ago.
I'm not sure I should tell you this but both of them I hosed all of the clay off. Basically barerooting them.
They did fine. Until voles ate them last winter.
I did the work in late spring when they were actively growing.
I also do this to junipers.
Tempted to throw caution to the wind on this one.20170320_135642.jpg
Pretty sure it's growing in MS Gumbo mud....its a regular shimp
20170320_135621.jpg
 

Guy Vitale

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I bought 2 hinoki cypress balled in Clay. 4 years ago.
I'm not sure I should tell you this but both of them I hosed all of the clay off. Basically barerooting them.
They did fine. Until voles ate them last winter.
I did the work in late spring when they were actively growing.
I also do this to junipers.
Mike, not sure I should say this either, but a few years back I bought a large hinoki from a big box store, I wanted to pot it down a bit. As soon as I took it out of the pot, all the field sand just slumped off exposing large chopped roots and little else. It must have been taken out of the grow beds that spring and sent straight to the store. Potted it up in a very course mixed soil, repotted this spring and I could not believe the amount of new roots.

Not saying I recommend bare rooting them, but I think they can take it. They love water, but not being soggy.
 
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The clay we got over here gets very greasy when wet. Dunno about yours, but you might wanna dry it out a bit before you start raking. Hosing 'our' clay off is way harder than raking off when it's dry, unless you have a pressure cleaner and blast everything to shit.
I'm curious to see your findings.
 

sorce

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The clay we got over here gets very greasy when wet. Dunno about yours, but you might wanna dry it out a bit before you start raking. Hosing 'our' clay off is way harder than raking off when it's dry, unless you have a pressure cleaner and blast everything to shit.
I'm curious to see your findings.

Big Amen to that!

Sorce
 

Sn0W

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@mrcasey whatever happened to these? Very interested in the cryptomeria if you have any info + pictures
 

mrcasey

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I do remember that I cut the hinoki root balls in half and then further cut around the
perimeters so I could get them into pots. One hinoki I left in it's field clay. It had the best color and health through the summer
and fall. One hinoki had its root ball reduced to the point of fitting in a 3 gallon container. I can't remember if I bare rooted
completely or replaced half the soil with my bonsai substrate (equal parts turface, perlite, and pine bark). It survived but did
poorly. It pushed no growth and had dull foliage with some browning. This fall, I thought it might die so I put it in the ground. The third hinoki had (I think) half it's soil replaced with my substrate. It looked ok. I did some wiring in early fall. All three of the
hinokis have developed some brown needle tips. My wiring cracked branches and some of those branches died. I had no idea how brittle hinoki branches can be. Also, if they crack, they seem to have a tendency to die.

One cryptomeria was about 5 gallons. The other was 10. I now believe that they were both infected with some kind of fungus
when I bought them. I mentioned this to the vendor but he plead ignorance. At any rate, the small tree had the bottom half of
its rootball cut off. The ten gallon crypto had much more of its root ball cut off. Its soil was replaced with bonsai substrate.
As spring wore on, the crypto diseases got worse so I cut off the dead needles and branches and sprayed fungicide. The smaller
crypto died. The larger one did fine. After a very cold January, the large crypto has either bronzed over or had a fungus relapse.

tldr: Four of the five are left. They don't look particularly healthy, but they're hobbling along. I was going to post a picture but
I'm a little embarrassed of the butchery I've committed. If you're really curious, I'll see if I can find a digital camera that works.
 

Sn0W

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@mrcasey I am curious. Looking for info on just how much I can get away with doing. Any pictures / explanations are good
 
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