Charcoal as soil additive/ top dressing?

[Eric Group]

I have seen it used and mentioned as good additive for soil frequently... But what are we talking about exactly? What type of charcoal would one use? Just some charred pieces of wood leftover from my fire bowl? I know we aren't talking like grill charcoal you find in a grocery store... Any advice on this? Thinking I could use some for a few of my Pines and Junis as a top dressing, and I finally got some red lava and Akadama- thinking of mixing up my own Boone's mix recipe. After all the discussions we have had and people talking it up, I figure it is with a shot... Need a little charcoal to mix in there based off what I have read...

Regardless... Anybody know what is best to use?

 

[Dav4]

I purchased a bag of horticultural charcoal at Home Depot and mix a small amount in with my lava, pumice, and turface

 

[Bonsai Nut]

There is a big difference between different grades of charcoal and/or carbon. Cheap charcoal will be high in sulfur and may release other impurities in the soil. I think many times people use cheap charcoal and think they are getting the benefits of activated carbon. On one hand it can be a pollutant, on the other it can REMOVE pollutants. So be very careful what you use. This is based on my experience using it as a filtration media in marine aquaria... horticultural use may be more forgiving.

 

[dick benbow]

We use it at the weyerhaeuser bonsai museum at the rate of 10% of the mixture of lava pummice and akadama. We've used it for years and as a consecquence of my volunteering up there, I too have used it in my mix with good results.
Being a koi Guy, I had lots of aquatic charcoal readily available that I used for water purification. DO NOT USE! It's important to use only horticultural types to get the proper results.
There were studies made and explained to me when I first was interested. I forget now all the details, because it' been years, but enough of an impression to convince me to use the horticultural grade only.....
hope this helps

 

[Stan Kengai]

Are you asking because of this article?
If so, I understand. There is a lot to be said about the horticulture of a refined bonsai, living in an extremely limited amount of substrate. Many things that "we", the American bonsai community, don't yet understand or even think are important.

Some say there is nothing more to charcoal that it is an absorptive medium. Others say you can control the pH of a medium and harbor beneficial bacterium by the addition of charcoal. Do the Japanese know something that I don't? I don't know, but their trees are certainly better than mine. I add it to substrates for trees that like a more neutral pH, like junipers.

 

[Eric Group]

Are you asking because of this article?
If so, I understand. There is a lot to be said about the horticulture of a refined bonsai, living in an extremely limited amount of substrate. Many things that "we", the American bonsai community, don't yet understand or even think are important.

Some say there is nothing more to charcoal that it is an absorptive medium. Others say you can control the pH of a medium and harbor beneficial bacterium by the addition of charcoal. Do the Japanese know something that I don't? I don't know, but their trees are certainly better than mine. I add it to substrates for trees that like a more neutral pH, like junipers.

I was reading that just before posting as a matter of fact... LOL- But I had wondered this for sometime, and have heard it mentioned Multiple places before as an ingredient people use in their bonsai mix... This was the first time I had seen it used in this quantity. The rusty nails were a trip too! Either they know something I have absolutely never heard of before or they just got bored and decided to try some crazy stuff!

 

[Derek91]

.
Being a koi Guy, I had lots of aquatic[SUB][/SUB] charcoal readily available that I used for water purification. DO NOT USE! It's important to use only horticultural types to get the proper results.
There were studies made and explained to me when I first was interested. I forget now all the details, because it' been years, but enough of an impression to convince me to use the horticultural grade only.....
hope this helps

I've never used a horticultural grade before. I have used aquarium types for aquariums and charcoal filters for deorderization. They all seem to breakdown easily and quickly,they are a mess. Are the horticultural grades like this and if so has it been a problem?

 

[Smoke]

I have seen it used and mentioned as good additive for soil frequently... But what are we talking about exactly? What type of charcoal would one use? Just some charred pieces of wood leftover from my fire bowl? I know we aren't talking like grill charcoal you find in a grocery store... Any advice on this? Thinking I could use some for a few of my Pines and Junis as a top dressing, and I finally got some red lava and Akadama- thinking of mixing up my own Boone's mix recipe. After all the discussions we have had and people talking it up, I figure it is with a shot... Need a little charcoal to mix in there based off what I have read...

Regardless... Anybody know what is best to use?

Some questions to chew on????

If you added charcoal to your mix, and it did what it is you think it would do...what is it it would do....or what do you want it to do????

On the other hand..what does bonsai soil do in a bonsai pot, whats its purpose?????

 

[Eric Group]

Some questions to chew on????

If you added charcoal to your mix, and it did what it is you think it would do...what is it it would do....or what do you want it to do????

On the other hand..what does bonsai soil do in a bonsai pot, whats its purpose?????

I guess those are valid questions Smoke- having never used it I cannot speak from experience about what exactly it provides obviously, but my understanding is that the charcoal helps aid in the absorption of nutrients in the soil, removes "pollutants" and serves as an organic component which retains a little water... All sound like valuable features from a soil component so I figure it is worth a try at least. These are the sorts of questions I was hoping to have answered in this thread though- what type of charcoal to use and why... So I guess I could have asked all this in the original post, but I feel I have a decent grasp of why charcoal is a valuable additive... I am just curious about what is best to use and where to find it.

Much like Akadama. I have never used Akadama either but the glowing endorsements of some people whose opinions I respect helped me decide to buy some. (That And I found it at an affordable price In Asheville last weekend) so, I find myself with what I understand to be all the components necessary to make a little Boone's mix- except a bit of charcoal- and after the discussions in that heated soil thread we had earlier this year I am curious to give it a shot. I am not moving out to Cali to immerse myself in "real" American bonsai or anything, but even us hicks out here in South Cackalacky can try to find new and better ways to do things!

 

[Eric Group]

I purchased a bag of horticultural charcoal at Home Depot and mix a small amount in with my lava, pumice, and turface

Home Depot ehh? I will have to give it a look! Thanks Dave!

 

[Smoke]

I guess those are valid questions Smoke- having never used it I cannot speak from experience about what exactly it provides obviously, but my understanding is that the charcoal helps aid in the absorption of nutrients in the soil, removes "pollutants" and serves as an organic component which retains a little water... All sound like valuable features from a soil component so I figure it is worth a try at least. These are the sorts of questions I was hoping to have answered in this thread though- what type of charcoal to use and why... So I guess I could have asked all this in the original post, but I feel I have a decent grasp of why charcoal is a valuable additive... I am just curious about what is best to use and where to find it.

Much like Akadama. I have never used Akadama either but the glowing endorsements of some people whose opinions I respect helped me decide to buy some. (That And I found it at an affordable price In Asheville last weekend) so, I find myself with what I understand to be all the components necessary to make a little Boone's mix- except a bit of charcoal- and after the discussions in that heated soil thread we had earlier this year I am curious to give it a shot. I am not moving out to Cali to immerse myself in "real" American bonsai or anything, but even us hicks out here in South Cackalacky can try to find new and better ways to do things!

What is your average summer time temp?
How long is your growing season?

 

[sorce]

I remember Smokes soil post had charcoal at a high, is it CEC?

Anyway. I have added aquarium activated carbon in the 1/8th chunk range to some things. And recently found an old filter with rabbit pellet type carbon, and have used it too. This pellet type stays in shape and has no dust.

Havent noticed any benifits or decline.

Sorce

 

[Eric Group]

What is your average summer time temp?
How long is your growing season?

It can get up to and a little over 100 here in the summers, growing season is basically early a March maybe late Feb through about November depending on the species. We still get temps up in the 80s this time of year, and all my plants seem to be actively growing though perhaps a bit slower right now.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

Is there a disadvantage to using horticultural charcoal? I don't use it, but I might start this coming growing season in my pines/junipers.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I sprinkle a little on the drainage layer of pines and junipers that tend to go longer between repottings. My Hachi Gen has healthy, but yellow needles right now, and I've been hitting it with micronutrients over the last two weeks. I suspect it's because it's been 5-6 years since repotting it last. After reading Bill's post, I added more charcoal to the soil surface as a test. I've been photographing it to track progress.

 

[edprocoat]

Just like in your BBQ you can not beat natural wood charcoal.

ed

 

[Dav4]

I sprinkle a little on the drainage layer of pines and junipers that tend to go longer between repottings. My Hachi Gen has healthy, but yellow needles right now, and I've been hitting it with micronutrients over the last two weeks. I suspect it's because it's been 5-6 years since repotting it last. After reading Bill's post, I added more charcoal to the soil surface as a test. I've been photographing it to track progress.

Agreed. I bought my bag 4-5 years ago (same brand as yours) and I'm just getting to the bottom of it.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

I found this at Kaneshin;

http://kaneshin.shop.multilingualcart.com/goods_en_jpy_382.html

It's bamboo charcoal specifically.

 

[Derek91]

I'm not too familiar with the differences of charcoal vs activated charcoal (something to do with more oxygen,more surface area...bla bla bla) but I know there is a difference. So if you do use this I definitely would make sure it's activated. I'm pretty sure activated charcoal and activated carbon is the same thing though.

 

[Smoke]

It can get up to and a little over 100 here in the summers, growing season is basically early a March maybe late Feb through about November depending on the species. We still get temps up in the 80s this time of year, and all my plants seem to be actively growing though perhaps a bit slower right now.

Thats about the same as I so akadama will benifit you greatly. So many people try certain things because of hype and the raving reviews from people that have used them over a number of years. Someone goes out and spends the money and finds that it does absolutly nothing after the money spent. So.....someone like Micheal Hagedorn and his blog post about pumice as maybe being the perfect substrate does not live in a climate with steady 100+ degree weather. Surly he must remember what it was like to do at least some bonsai in Arizona when he was a potter. To try and grow bonsai in pumice would be suicide.