Chinese Elm hasnt sprouted new leaves in over 2 months

lieuz

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I hate to agree with @rockm but I too had a chinese elm that looked VERY suspiciously like this one in color and everything else (it ended up dying, spring came and no leaves. waited another 3 months into summer and no leaves). I forgot what had happen to mine but I do recall it being outside, my elm never came indoors, and one very bad winter, it never recovered. I don't recall repotting mine but I think there were times when we had unseasonably cold cold nights and it went on for possibly a week or 2 and that may have did it in. But in your case repotting it may have really done it in. Here is what mine looked like when I was praying it would bud and leaf.

Taken around May of 2010.
Chinese Elm 2010.JPG
 

Redwood Ryan

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The soil looks pretty moist, which isn't good if the tree has been dormant this whole time. It may have root rot again because it did not need all the water it was receiving.
 

andrew morabito

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The soil looks pretty moist, which isn't good if the tree has been dormant this whole time. It may have root rot again because it did not need all the water it was receiving.

Those pictures were taken after watering it. I do my best to keep the root rot from coming back by checking the soil with a toothpick. Since my apartment is so dry it dries out pretty quick.
 

andrew morabito

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I hate to agree with @rockm but I too had a chinese elm that looked VERY suspiciously like this one in color and everything else (it ended up dying, spring came and no leaves. waited another 3 months into summer and no leaves). I forgot what had happen to mine but I do recall it being outside, my elm never came indoors, and one very bad winter, it never recovered. I don't recall repotting mine but I think there were times when we had unseasonably cold cold nights and it went on for possibly a week or 2 and that may have did it in. But in your case repotting it may have really done it in. Here is what mine looked like when I was praying it would bud and leaf.

Taken around May of 2010.
View attachment 93535

I am sure the tree was shocked with the weather change and heat differential between inside and outside being on the windowsill and having to re-pot it. I guess I just have to wait it out and see if anything changes, but I have a strong suspicion you are right and the tree is dying. Guess only time will tell.
 

rockm

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How do you water? Do you submerge the pot completely? or water it from the top?

If you're submerging the pot, you're likely keeping the interior of the root mass soggy.

Submersion watering is questionable at best for most outdoor bonsai. It can be the kiss of death for indoor bonsai. New owners do it too often, thinking without giving the INTERIOR of the root mass time to dry a bit. That can quickly lead to root rot. This can happen even with free draining soil.
 

andrew morabito

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How do you water? Do you submerge the pot completely? or water it from the top?

If you're submerging the pot, you're likely keeping the interior of the root mass soggy.

Submersion watering is questionable at best for most outdoor bonsai. It can be the kiss of death for indoor bonsai. New owners do it too often, thinking without giving the INTERIOR of the root mass time to dry a bit. That can quickly lead to root rot. This can happen even with free draining soil.

No I do not do submerging water. What i usually do is water in quarter sections of the pot. Once I see water come out the bottom into the catch tray I move to the next section, and then fill the rest of the catch tray with water to help with humidity. I repeat this on average every 4 or 5 days.
 

rockm

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Still, I would bet this is a watering/soil issue. Watering according to a schedule can lead to overwatering or underwatering. Learning when to water is one one--if not the--hardest part of bonsai. A plant's needs can very tremendously day to day. Staying on a schedule ignores those needs.

FWIW, the "humidity tray" or "catch tray" that comes with store-bought trees are one of the dirty little secrets mass produced and marketed bonsai. The trays are useless and an add-on by the company that made the pot to pump up the price a bit. It provides no humidity benefits and can pose a hazard if it is left too full and water is in contact with the bottom of the pot.

If you want to raise the humidity enough to have any affect on the tree, you will have to provide a dedicated room (or sheltered space like a covered rack) and a household humidifier at the very least.
 

lieuz

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@rockm you said it, you pretty much have to ask 20 questions when you water. I remember once when I got a slew of days with overcast, I didn't water for over several days on my supposed schedule.
 

andrew morabito

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Still, I would bet this is a watering/soil issue. Watering according to a schedule can lead to overwatering or underwatering. Learning when to water is one one--if not the--hardest part of bonsai. A plant's needs can very tremendously day to day. Staying on a schedule ignores those needs.

FWIW, the "humidity tray" or "catch tray" that comes with store-bought trees are one of the dirty little secrets mass produced and marketed bonsai. The trays are useless and an add-on by the company that made the pot to pump up the price a bit. It provides no humidity benefits and can pose a hazard if it is left too full and water is in contact with the bottom of the pot.

If you want to raise the humidity enough to have any affect on the tree, you will have to provide a dedicated room (or sheltered space like a covered rack) and a household humidifier at the very least.

I agree with you, I water it when the soil seems to be just to dry for what I think the tree wants (this could be my problem because I dont know what the tree wants being it has been in such a bad state since I got it). Hard for me to get a good read on what the tree wants when I only have the soil dampness to go off of and no real signs from the tree. I did not know that about the catch tray, since I have it full of rocks and the pot sitting on top of them there is no way for the water to be in the bottom of the pot.
 

andrew morabito

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I guess a good question to ask is what should I be looking for in terms of dampness of the soil before watering? Wait till it is dry half way down, wait till just the surface is dry, wait till the tooth pick comes up dry from the bottom? Since the majority of the water I put in the pot comes out the bottom I am just looking to keep it lightly damp throughout?
 

rockm

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Another question is how well did you clean out the old root ball before putting new soil around it? Did you completely bareroot the tree, washing off all the old soil, or just trim around a perimeter, leaving a core of the old root mass and fill in around it?

That could be critical, as free draining soil around a denser core discourages new root growth and can eventually lead to this kind of outcome. Water that drains through the new soil stays in the denser soil in the interior, which just gets wetter and rots.
 

andrew morabito

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Another question is how well did you clean out the old root ball before putting new soil around it? Did you completely bareroot the tree, washing off all the old soil, or just trim around a perimeter, leaving a core of the old root mass and fill in around it?

That could be critical, as free draining soil around a denser core discourages new root growth and can eventually lead to this kind of outcome. Water that drains through the new soil stays in the denser soil in the interior, which just gets wetter and rots.

Completely barerooted the tree, washed off all the old dirt, trimmed away parts where the fungus was the worst, washed out the pot to make sure all the fungus with H2O2 and then cleaned it with water to make sure it was really clean, and then used a brand new soil mixture. I am sure this lead to the initial shock to the tree which put it in the state it is now, but figured being aggressively careful of the rot root was the best route.
 

rockm

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Don't know what to tell you then. The tree most likely died of some sort of root issue that cascaded. Chinese elms are very forgiving and can stand a lot of stress and even downright abuse. That tells me hat this tree may have been a gone even before you bought it and had been under extreme stress from bad soil/etc for a very long time prior.
 

andrew morabito

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Yeah, was hoping that wasnt the case. So even with the phloem still alive the tree is on its way out?

If so how long should I wait to see if there is that slim chance the little guy makes it back? Figured I would keep it till at least middle of the year to make sure I dont call it early, but what is the major signs that it is completely dead/no chance of coming back?
 

rockm

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Yeah, was hoping that wasnt the case. So even with the phloem still alive the tree is on its way out?

If so how long should I wait to see if there is that slim chance the little guy makes it back? Figured I would keep it till at least middle of the year to make sure I dont call it early, but what is the major signs that it is completely dead/no chance of coming back?
I'd give it a few more weeks. Keep it moist, but not soggy. An hour or so of direct sunlight might not hurt.
 

JudyB

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A little bottom heat, like a seedling mat wouldn't hurt either. Roots can sometimes be stimulated by bottom heat.
 
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