Chinese Elm Pruning

[Grimberian]

Good Afternoon Folks
Now that autumn is setting in properly over here in the UK, my Chinese Elm has started to drop some (but not all!) of it's leaves, the colours are beautiful too.
This tree lives outside all year round, through wind, rain and snow!
Now I can see the branch structure a bit more clearly, I can see I have let it get into a bit of a tangled mess. It grew like crazy this summer and I have clearly not kept on top of it.
I've added a few pics for you to see yourselves...



Now, reading various websites I can't tell if this is a good time to tackle some pruning or not?
In regards of work being done, I think the main branch structure is ok, but I need to start removing inwards pointing, directly upward pointing and downward pointing branches, along with any crossing branches.
Any advice would be appreciated, though I appreciate it might be hard to give too much information just based on a few pics.
Cheers

 

[Colorado]

Yes, I like to prune deciduous trees in the fall. You could also wait until early spring if you like, but now is a great time.

 

[Michael P]

I like to wait until the deciduous trees are completely dormant, then I prune from late autumn through the winter. Small cuts are OK through that whole period. If large cuts are needed, I like to wait until the buds swell because large cuts heal more quickly when the tree is in active growth.

 

[Grimberian]

Thank you both. I will have a clean-up of the smaller branches then to get it a bit more manageable, and then see how it gets on when it starts growing again properly.
I think this might be an excuse to order myself a set of bonsai tools, rather than the standard garden pruners I currently use

 

[Shibui]

I'm happy to prune and trim Chinese elm any time of year down here. Chinese elm do not always drop all leaves depending on how cold the winter gets but even dormant trees can compartmentalize a cut then begin healing over the following growth period.
The overgrown branches and apex are typical for beginners who are reluctant to prune. Hedge pruning will only go so far to maintain a neat outline. Deeper pruning is required to manage and improve structure.
You will note that the upper branches and apex have grown way more than the lowest branch due to apical dominance. upper areas usually need more and deeper pruning to balance vigour so don't be frightened to take more off the top.
Often radical pruning to remove over thick parts is necessary. Remove thick, straight sections in favour of better placed, better shaped side branches even if that means reducing branch length below your desired outline. New growth next spring will soon fill it in again.
Branch cutters and pruning scissors will allow you to get into the chaos and prune much more neatly than the secateurs so definitely look at options for bonsai tools.

 

[sorce]

I'd like to see you hit it hard and regrow a better branch structure. Maybe even chop it up and take some layers.

Regardless of our wishes....

I wouldn't trim it now, or until spring, simply because there is no good reason to.

Contrary, leaving everything intact allows a safeguard for whatever winter may kill, from small twig death to mice chewing things off.

Better to make these moves directly before growth in spring.

The growth also seems slightly "confused", a bit too much contrast between what appears to be still growing, and falling off.

Sorry, had this unsent since yesterday.

Sorce

 

[Grimberian]

Ok, thanks all
Just as confused now - I have done some trimming to try and thin it out a bit, but I think @Shibui is probably right with comment about new people being hesitant to prune.
I watched a YouTube video yesterday from Greenwood where a Chinese elm was totally chopped back, and the resulting piece was much nice.
Maybe I should but the bullet.
@sorce - how hard is hard? Care to scribble on one of the picture I uploaded to give me an idea?
Thanks again, all feedback and criticisms gratefully received!
P.

 

[sorce]

I'd be in here, this is why I wouldn't leave so little before winter.


But I don't think it's worth the effort here.

I'd consider removing the entire top because it's ugliness isn't worth the salvage effort.


Then since the resulting is a useless design, chip it up into them 3 shorter right tapered joints you're in control of.

No doubt these pieces stand to make you a better or many better trees than this "mallsai" hazard, in much faster time.

Sorce

 

[Grimberian]

@sorce - Thanks for the pics, much appreciated.
I will have a think on this one, I might do some hard chopping back first to see where I get to, then re-assess.
Sorry for the late reply - don't want you to think I am ignoring you / your advice!
P.

 

[sorce]

don't want you to think I am ignoring you / your advice!

No worries!

I reckon my realest goal, and most satisfying reward from talking all the s I do, would be for someone to come say, "I didn't do what you said but it led me to this and the tree is better for it!".

The only time I get really antsy about doing something Right Now, would be if your tree is on the brink of a growing season that would ruin the design if left alone.
You don't seem to be in this realm.

You are in this realm where your time can be "wasted" (only wasted if you learn nothing) by not
acting. You are already displaying some future learning in your "reassessment", so I don't fear it that much.

This is a subjective design idea. This subjectivity, taste if you will, evolves in most people, you are showing signs of being one of those people, that's the only reason I suggest these things, not to foolishly alter something subjective, but to more quickly evolve your subjectivity or taste.

Sorce

 

[swatchpost]

No worries!

I reckon my realest goal, and most satisfying reward from talking all the s I do, would be for someone to come say, "I didn't do what you said but it led me to this and the tree is better for it!".

The only time I get really antsy about doing something Right Now, would be if your tree is on the brink of a growing season that would ruin the design if left alone.
You don't seem to be in this realm.

You are in this realm where your time can be "wasted" (only wasted if you learn nothing) by not
acting. You are already displaying some future learning in your "reassessment", so I don't fear it that much.

This is a subjective design idea. This subjectivity, taste if you will, evolves in most people, you are showing signs of being one of those people, that's the only reason I suggest these things, not to foolishly alter something subjective, but to more quickly evolve your subjectivity or taste.

Sorce

^^^ This right here is why this forum is so beneficial.

 

[PA_Penjing]

I prune elm very often during the growing season but am not touching mine while dormant or just before. Been hearing mumblings that species prone to die back (elm, zelkova,birch) shouldn't be reduced when dormant. I could be doing it all wrong, I haven't tried the opposite yet. But when folks complain about die back on certain deciduous trees, I have to wonder if it's because they are treating them all the same. Also when I say "die back" I am referring to fine branching. Just throwing this out there as something to consider, may or may not be worth pursuing.

 

[rockm]

The problem with doing hard pruning in the fall, particularly larger branches, is the tree won't heal them for months. The edges of wound can also die back, sometimes severely depending on temperatures. Trunk chops are the same issue, only you risk losing the remaining trunk down to the ground...I just wait until late winter (mid-Feb. in my area) cuts down on those issues significantly