Chinese elm styling

[Scrogdor]

Picked up this small shohin type Chinese elm in a 6”pot. Trying to figure out which way is the front. I’m kind of leaning towards this “Eye” part being the front, kind of reminds me of game of thrones or something ha.

 

[HorseloverFat]

“Best root flare/trunk” out of those pictures is the second, in my opinion.

But.. there are several other things to consider... how tall is your “finished design” in your mental sketchbook?

Once it is healthy and vigorous, of course.. because you don’t “work” sick, weak or underperforming trees, I would start either making plans for a Hard Prune... or visually planning a BIGGER design.. because if you are aiming smaller.. it will be difficult to create enough BELIEVABLE taper to satisfy the scale needs of this tree...

I like it, though! Just if it were mine, I’d start planning that big “prune”. And perform after I was CERTAIN of the tree’s vigor.

 

[Scrogdor]

“Best root flare/trunk” out of those pictures is the second, in my opinion.

But.. there are several other things to consider... how tall is your “finished design” in your mental sketchbook?

Once it is healthy and vigorous, of course.. because you don’t “work” sick, weak or underperforming trees, I would start either making plans for a Hard Prune... or visually planning a BIGGER design.. because if you are aiming smaller.. it will be difficult to create enough BELIEVABLE taper to satisfy the scale needs of this tree...

I like it, though! Just if it were mine, I’d start planning that big “prune”. And perform after I was CERTAIN of the tree’s vigor.

Definitely bigger than it is now. It's about 8-9" tall from the soil, planning to let it go to maybe 13-14".I got it from wigert's bonsai in south florida last week. They told me it was a little sparce because of the summer sun, so I've kept it in partial shade since it arrived. The trunk was so thick though, figured with some time it could become a cool small/medium bonsai.

I'm pretty new to bonsai, is a big prune just taking all of its branches back to 1-2 leaves?

 

[HorseloverFat]

Well.. big prune.. is taking it way back... leaving a large scar.. (There are several options for your tree, realistically) this wound will be tended to for the next 5-10 years.. elms are pretty fast healing, though.. so on the shorter end of that spectrum.

My personal favorite, hypothetical chop to this tree, is chopping back to that branch that emerges “stage right” of that “eye” (second image), THAT would be my new leader, using those existing side branch(es) to begin my first (PERHAPS second, I can’t see SUPER well) branching structure...

If you have putty and paste... I’d recommend, personally, putty for large Ulmus wounds.. and the ol’ “Rub some dirt on it” for smaller Ulmus wounds...

The other option.. is go MUCH larger... like 14-18”... and no chop would be NEEDED... (once the root flare was allowed to “catch up”)

NEEDED.. being the important word... I still BELIEVE that a Hard prune/“chop“. Once tree has proven vigorous, would be the most effective Way to get this specimen to it’s “most desirable” starting point..

But that’s me... I’m wild, and “Sticks”-y as HELL!

 

[Maiden69]

looks like you have a new lead growing, but it is on the lower side of that chop. I would focus the growth on that and develop your next trunk section, there are so many things I am thinking right now, but I will let more experienced people chime in. Read up @Brian Van Fleet trident thread, you could apply what he did to his trident to this elm.

The 2010 BonsaiNut Maple Project

Al, I love this idea! I've been working on trees for quite a few years, and have never once had a trident maple in a bonsai pot. I've always figured that they were so easy to grow, that I wouldn't have one unless it was a damn good one. I have several trident maples in the ground, and so...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[sorce]

It seems to be dying back from the tallest part.

I'd try to cut that out and reheal this.


Probably doing it after spring growth starts.

Since that will continue providing through then, I would clean up what will be keeper stuff now.

Sorce

 

[BrianBay9]

I wouldn't make any decisions yet. Just let it grow out. You've still got three months of the growing season to let it get going. Reassess in Feb.

 

[Scrogdor]

looks like you have a new lead growing, but it is on the lower side of that chop. I would focus the growth on that and develop your next trunk section, there are so many things I am thinking right now, but I will let more experienced people chime in. Read up @Brian Van Fleet trident thread, you could apply what he did to his trident to this elm.

The 2010 BonsaiNut Maple Project

Al, I love this idea! I've been working on trees for quite a few years, and have never once had a trident maple in a bonsai pot. I've always figured that they were so easy to grow, that I wouldn't have one unless it was a damn good one. I have several trident maples in the ground, and so...

www.bonsainut.com

here’s some more pics of the trunk to give a better view. The branch that’s coming off the upper part of the cut is much thicker with a lot of growth. Why would the lower one be the lead?

 

[Scrogdor]

It seems to be dying back from the tallest part.

I'd try to cut that out and reheal this.
View attachment 393465

Probably doing it after spring growth starts.

Since that will continue providing through then, I would clean up what will be keeper stuff now.

Sorce

Here’s a pic with the flash on of the leads. It looks like it’s been pruned a lot to keep it small.

 

[Maiden69]

here’s some more pics of the trunk to give a better view. The branch that’s coming off the upper part of the cut is much thicker with a lot of growth. Why would the lower one be the lead?

yes, and it is going the same direction as the movement of the lower trunk. Normally, you want the tree trunk to change directions. The trunk already has a nice flare to the left, so the next movement would be to the right. and you already have a branch in the first branch location... the challenge will be keeping it from getting too thick as you develop the trunk.

Starting with the cut that Sorce suggested, all red marks are trunk chops, lower one next spring by bud break, upper one the spring following the season where you are ok with the second section thickness.

Yellow is the growth after the cut this coming spring.
Aqua is the growth after the second chop.



Very basic video. But there is a lot of information here and on the web.

 

[Scrogdor]

yes, and it is going the same direction as the movement of the lower trunk. Normally, you want the tree trunk to change directions. The trunk already has a nice flare to the left, so the next movement would be to the right. and you already have a branch in the first branch location... the challenge will be keeping it from getting too thick as you develop the trunk.

Starting with the cut that Sorce suggested, all red marks are trunk chops, lower one next spring by bud break, upper one the spring following the season where you are ok with the second section thickness.

Yellow is the growth after the cut this coming spring.
Aqua is the growth after the second chop.

View attachment 393528

Very basic video. But there is a lot of information here and on the web.

Okay I see what you mean now. Looking closer at this now, it looks like it’s leads have been trimmed quite a bit. Here’s a picture of the lower lead branch with detail. I’m not even sure where it is anymore because it splits so many ways. Should I Just let this grow wild for the rest of this season to see what branches grow the most? If so, would setting this in a bigger pot with more soil (without disturbing the current roots/soil) be better for these last few months to allow some more root growth?

 

[Scrogdor]

This Chinese elm has had 10+ shoots emerge over the last month since it arrived, I haven't cut anything yet. (Don't mind the moss) Originally I had liked the other side of the tree, but now I actually like this side a little bit more because it looks more "muscly" and has a little better curve.

Question, if I cut the trunk like that, is it likely or possible that another side branch will bud on the trunk where nothing is there currently? (Where the white drawn in branch is) I'm leaning toward chopping this side(left) because I don't see any real leaders, they have all been cut back many times by the nursery and none are facing up/ already tapered to be very small. Or will one of the branches take over and start growing upwards?

 

[HorseloverFat]

I would TOTALLY chop at that angle... But Ulmus will swell over dead heartwood at the cut point.. QUICKLY... but you ALSO have to consider your plant’s stability.. and life-“flow”...

So what I’m saying is that, IF i was chopping at that angle ... I would do in in Feb, before budswell... I would cut a TINY bit “higher” than my intended prune, so I could cut a lighter concave in. I would use wound PASTE that whole season after the prune. i would let those remaining branches RUN WILD to assist in beginning to heal that wound... then.. in early August, I’d pull that paste and finish cleaning that deadwood out for healing.. because by THEN... you actually know where your “lines” are.



That’s just what THIS crazy hombre would do.

 

[Scrogdor]

I would TOTALLY chop at that angle... But Ulmus will swell over dead heartwood at the cut point.. QUICKLY... but you ALSO have to consider your plant’s stability.. and life-“flow”...

So what I’m saying is that, IF i was chopping at that angle ... I would do in in Feb, before budswell... I would cut a TINY bit “higher” than my intended prune, so I could cut a lighter concave in. I would use wound PASTE that whole season after the prune. i would let those remaining branches RUN WILD to assist in beginning to heal that wound... then.. in early August, I’d pull that paste and finish cleaning that deadwood out for healing.. because by THEN... you actually know where your “lines” are.



That’s just what THIS crazy hombre would do.

Yeah, I wasn't planning on cutting anything until just before spring. Tree seemed a little down when it arrived so I've just let it run wild for the most part. I've never actually chopped before, what would you recommend to chop and then clean out the dead wood later? I know there are smaller/fine bonsai hand saws, which is what I was going to lean towards.

 

[Scrogdor]

Update: Performed an angled chop and picked a new leader from the remaining branches. Used a clean box cutter around the edges of the chop to clean up the cambium and carved it to be a little concave. I used bonsai paste to seal the chop. Unfortunately I mangled part of that side branch during the chop, so hopefully it recovers.

Second bonsai trunk chop ever. Definitely struggled ALOT getting this chop a little concave. Hopefully this lived.

 

[Eckhoffw]

Update: Performed an angled chop and picked a new leader from the remaining branches. Used a clean box cutter around the edges of the chop to clean up the cambium and carved it to be a little concave. I used bonsai paste to seal the chop. Unfortunately I mangled part of that side branch during the chop, so hopefully it recovers.

Second bonsai trunk chop ever. Definitely struggled ALOT getting this chop a little concave. Hopefully this lived.

Nice work.
Man, those air prune pots look soo wicked!
Like the Legion of Doom

 

[Scrogdor]

People aren’t kidding when they say Chinese elms are tough nails and have beast mode growth. This was the first tree to bud out. Now I’m overwhelmed.

 

[giventofly]

Enjoying watch the progress on this. What is the final expected result ?

 

[Scrogdor]

Enjoying watch the progress on this. What is the final expected result ?

Roughly the blue lines. Just trying to keep the designs a little more simple since this is my first spring.

 

[rollwithak]

People aren’t kidding when they say Chinese elms are tough nails and have beast mode growth. This was the first tree to bud out. Now I’m overwhelmed.

Lol, yeah if you kill a Chinese elm you’re doing something WAY wrong!!! Awesome beginner trees! Just great trees all around. Cool project dude. Looking forward to following along.