Chishio Improved

[small trees]

This thread is to track the progress of a tree i got recently.

Brian Van Fleet was kind enough to sell me a layer off of his Chishio Improved, since I was so enamored with it and couldn't find the cultivar anywhere else with decent size. He packed it up and sent it to me a few weeks back. I haven't done anything with it other than put it in the ground, because I wasn't (and still am not) sure if/where I want to chop lower. Here are pictures in 90 degree increments. Any suggestions for a chop are welcome.

 

[jkd2572]

Did Brian give any advice on where to chop? He cut it down to there. It would be interesting to know his thoughts. I would imagine he chopped that high as die back on JM usually happens. What do you think Brian?

 

[small trees]

Did Brian give any advice on where to chop? He cut it down to there. It would be interesting to know his thoughts. I would imagine he chopped that high as die back on JM usually happens. What do you think Brian?

I believe he chopped it there to leave options. Let me find the conversation we had.


" I left it longer so you will have the option of a taller trunk, or you can cut it back another 5-6" and build the next trunk section just above where the wiggle straightens out."


I think I see where he was talking about and it's where I would probably make the chop. I guess I'm just still trying to visualize the future shape.

I didn't get very good angles now that I look at them. There are a couple angles that show a lot more movement.

 

[edprocoat]

It has a big enough trunk to leave it where its at. You also have a nice leader up top to start off with and it looks like some well placed secondary branches too. Nice score, like a gift from BVF.

ed

 

[small trees]

Nice score, like a gift from BVF.

ed

Agreed, I think very highly of him.

It has a big enough trunk to leave it where its at. You also have a nice leader up top to start off with and it looks like some well placed secondary branches too.

Regarding secondary branching, buds are popping all over the tree. I won't have any shortage of branches to choose from. I may keep it as is; either way I am going to take a little time to decide and hopefully an image will pop into my mind.

 

[Eric Group]

Picture 2- chop about an inch or so above where the lowest branch is coming off on the right- that can be your new leader. Chop straight across an inch above to allow for die back without killing that branch, wait for buds to develop and grow off the opposite side of the branch, and once they harden off, pick a strong one somewhere on the opposite side, but a little lower than the base of your new leader and cut at an angle from the base of your new leader to the base of the branch you chose on the opposite side. This will give you some nice movement, a smooth transition, branch placement on the outside of the curves and two branches right at the edge of the large scar which should help to heal it quickly.

Just my opinion obviously. I have used this method once or twice and am in the first phase of it with a new tree right now- sometime during this growing season I will finish carving out the angled cut.

I have tried to do the angle cut initially without first developing a bud on the opposite side before, and while it might work fine, chances are you won't get a good bud to pop where you want it in the opposite side of the main leader, the wound won't heal as fast, and you won't wind up with the best branch placement. You seem to have a decent branch there to use for the new leader- puts you 1 step ahead vs a tree that doesn't have good low branches!

Now, obviously, I am only looking at a 2D image, the branch I would select for your new leader may not be at as good of an angle as It appears to be in the image, maybe in 3D the branch has a funky scar or issue there that you don't like- ultimately it is all up to you of course, but that one looks like a slam dunk decision for me!

Now, take into account a few things first- how long has the layer been separated from the parent tree? If less than 2 years or so you probably want to just let the thing grow and gain some vigor this year! If it has been a long time since separation, but you hacked the roots up pretty good when you planted it - same thing- let it grow for a while... This variety of Maple is not as wimpy as a lace leaf might be, but probably not quite as vigorous as a Trident or a regular old Green leaf Japanese Maple and you might want to keep that in mind when deciding when to make the cut.... I am sure Bryan has given you all the info you need to make a wise decision though. If this thing is healthy, well established and ready to work on- have you considered air layering the top off it? As you stated, not an easy variety to find around here, might be cool to have an extra one right?

 

[jkd2572]

I believe he chopped it there to leave options. Let me find the conversation we had.


" I left it longer so you will have the option of a taller trunk, or you can cut it back another 5-6" and build the next trunk section just above where the wiggle straightens out."


I think I see where he was talking about and it's where I would probably make the chop. I guess I'm just still trying to visualize the future shape.

I didn't get very good angles now that I look at them. There are a couple angles that show a lot more movement.

If that is where you want to make the cut I would chop below the next ring higher. In my experience maples chops turn black and die down a little. Then again it gets 110 degrees here and we grow them in in heavy shade. And then pray they live.

 

[Poink88]

Is that juni in the back yours?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Morning...I meant to mark it for you before I wrapped it up. If I was keeping it, I would have cut it here, and used a shoot that would emerge from the growth ring just below the cut as the new leader.

It was about 8' tall when I cut it down to ship.

 

[small trees]

Is that juni in the back yours?

Yeah, there are a couple over there. I bought them maybe a year and a half ago and wired them open in hopes of getting some budding closer to the trunk. I put them in the ground a few weeks ago. They're your normal nana though, but still good experience.

Morning...I meant to mark it for you before I wrapped it up. If I was keeping it, I would have cut it here, and used a shoot that would emerge from the growth ring just below the cut as the new leader.

It was about 8' tall when I cut it down to ship.

Ah, I see. Let me go take a look at it and I might go ahead and do that.

 

[small trees]

Yeah, there are a couple over there. I bought them maybe a year and a half ago and wired them open in hopes of getting some budding closer to the trunk. I put them in the ground a few weeks ago. They're your normal nana though, but still good experience.

Ah, I see. Let me go take a look at it and I might go ahead and do that.

I'm bumping this because I want to take a layer, but I don't know if that's the best thing to do right now. I'm open to suggestions, especially interested to hear what you think, bvf.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Go for it.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

@GeorgiaBonsai , how is this tree and layer looking

 

[small trees]

Dead as a doornail. Planted it in the ground at home while in school and a landscaper weedeater-ed it to death. A shame but not a whole lot I could have done at the time.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Bummer