Chlormequat Chloride?

Messages
179
Reaction score
423
Location
Alaska
USDA Zone
2
Insomnia is winning once again and I find myself wandering aimlessly through this cavernous digital rabbit hole in search of any information that might be slightly relevant to my newfound obsession.

After much spelunking I became aware a substance known as BAP. I must have it. Who knows what atrocities or miracles I might preform with such a substance. The search was on and it wasn't long before I came across this little grotto with the purest samples of magical substances.

I'll stop. I used more than enough words already. I just want to ask if anyone has any experience with Chlormequat Chloride.
 

Lutonian

Chumono
Messages
533
Reaction score
1,245
Location
Luton, East Anglia, England, Great Britain
USDA Zone
9a
I have never used it myself, but if you plan to please be careful as this is a hazardous chemical and good procedures are needed for its use. You got to ask yourself if the rewards are worth the risk to yourself & your household. https://ws.eastman.com/ProductCatalogApps/PageControllers/MSDSShow_PC.aspx check out the safety leaflet (Uk Version)
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
11,273
Reaction score
15,771
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Insomnia is winning once again and I find myself wandering aimlessly through this cavernous digital rabbit hole in search of any information that might be slightly relevant to my newfound obsession.

After much spelunking I became aware a substance known as BAP. I must have it. Who knows what atrocities or miracles I might preform with such a substance. The search was on and it wasn't long before I came across this little grotto with the purest samples of magical substances.

I'll stop. I used more than enough words already. I just want to ask if anyone has any experience with Chlormequat Chloride.
Stop obsessing. This stuff is unnecessary and if you don't know what you're doing, potentially problematic. A better solution if you're after shorter growth is limiting Phosphate (the P in fertilizer NPK). I learned that from a bonsai nursery owner who does it with all his trees.. Phosphate fuels cell division and plant growth--limiting it slows down extension growth, so overall growth is more compact.

Fertilizer like this (20-10-20):
 

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,047
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b

hinmo24t

Masterpiece
Messages
2,433
Reaction score
3,002
Location
Dartmouth Massachusetts
USDA Zone
7A
Insomnia is winning once again and I find myself wandering aimlessly through this cavernous digital rabbit hole in search of any information that might be slightly relevant to my newfound obsession.

After much spelunking I became aware a substance known as BAP. I must have it. Who knows what atrocities or miracles I might preform with such a substance. The search was on and it wasn't long before I came across this little grotto with the purest samples of magical substances.

I'll stop. I used more than enough words already. I just want to ask if anyone has any experience with Chlormequat Chloride.
slept like azz last night too. 3 am and i tried falling asleep at 8pm GF gets up at 4AM for work so i got like 3ish hours of sleep and in office now...only bad day this week though so s happens, roll with the punches

at work now, just being a bit extra careful with my work and what i say

taxpayer life
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
11,273
Reaction score
15,771
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
I would steer clear of using this on bonsai (or bonzai, as the product description calls it). It is basically a growth regulator aimed at crop plants ,including regulating growth of poinsettias in greenhouses and even marijuana grow operations. It looks to require specific timing for applications in some cases. Simply spraying a strong growth inhibiting hormone around your backyard probably is not going to produce the results you think it will.
 

NaoTK

Shohin
Messages
312
Reaction score
1,671
Location
Western Oregon
The scientific literature is very compelling and I plan to try it as a novelty. On woody plants it seems to only increase flowering and reduce fruit drop. I see lots of papers on health effects as well. There is another chemical uniconazole which may work better depending on the species.

If you can achieve something like "spray your princess persimmons in June and you can prevent fruit drop" then it's worth it. If you can show Japanese maple shoots are half as long then you are really onto something, but the literature doesn't exist.

Most of the studies are on annuals (sunflower, wheat, soybean, primrose, solanum) and a few on pyracantha, apples, grapes, oleander. For woody plants there's no economic reason to study smaller growth so there's not much literature on the topic.

These folks applied it to pines and got a good cone response, so it affects pines but the growth is not reported: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s11676-011-0179-3.pdf
uniconazole dwarfed pyracantha: https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/26/7/article-p877.xml
 

Shogun610

Omono
Messages
1,721
Reaction score
2,170
Location
Pennsylvania
USDA Zone
6B
…. This is a quaternary ammonium and an alkylating agent meaning it damages DNA , being very carcinogenic….. you’d be foolish to even risk using this

I’d stay away of anything synthetic honestly … hell even when I walk my dog and I get a whiff of anything chemical fertilizer wise on lawns I’m walking in another direction and wipe paws anyway….
Anything with “Quat” in it. LD50 is likely to be low , and could cause increased toxicity over time to exposure. This is extremely hazardous and I plead for you not to use it. There are other methods that result in shorter better fruit retention , shorter internodes, and thicker trunks that let you avoid from using this. Let alone being able to obtain without you bein a licensed trained professional, regulatory authorities only allow certain quantities to be used or on site… I hope would be hard.
 
Last edited:

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
10,287
Reaction score
20,383
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
Many years ago, I was frustrated with a Paphiopedilum violescens orchid. I had this single clone of this hard to source orchid. It would take a year or two to make a new growth, then the old growth would die. It always left me with just a single growth. This particular species was mostly reproduced by seed, often with the "mother plant" being single growth, it would perish after the seed pod ripened.

So I tried dosing my single growth plant with BAP in order to release apical dominance, in the hopes of getting multiple new growths off the single growth. Fairly quickly, a little bit of callus formed, then the entire plant died. Was the BAP too concentrated? Probably. I had diluted it 0.1 g to 1000 ml, then 10 ml to 1000 ml. That was only 1 part per million. I abandoned any further experimentation with hormones.

As @rockm & @Shogun610 & @NaoTK suggest, growth hormones are tricky to use correctly, unsafe, and unlikely to give desired results.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
11,273
Reaction score
15,771
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Is Chlomequat chloride related to Paraquat? If you grew up in the 70's, you have heard of paraquat...
 

Shogun610

Omono
Messages
1,721
Reaction score
2,170
Location
Pennsylvania
USDA Zone
6B
Is Chlomequat chloride related to Paraquat? If you grew up in the 70's, you have heard of paraquat...
Similar but different…with quaternary ammonium structures , para- 2 nitrogen binding sites with on the cyclical pyridine structures.. this has quaternary nitrogen’s instead of a chloride , and is a herbicide very bad shit. Quat just means quaternary compound structure.
 

Cajunrider

Masterpiece
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
3,541
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
Similar but different…with quaternary ammonium structures , para- 2 nitrogen binding sites with on the cyclical pyridine structures.. this has quaternary nitrogen’s instead of a chloride , and is a herbicide very bad shit. Quat just means quaternary compound structure.
So bad that my neurologist made me swear I will never use it.
 

Lorax7

Chumono
Messages
777
Reaction score
992
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5b
Sounds like a great way to give yourself cancer, potentially turn your home into a superfund site, and/or rack up some big EPA fines.
 

NaoTK

Shohin
Messages
312
Reaction score
1,671
Location
Western Oregon
I'm not a proponent of chlormequat (I just learned about it from this thread) but I bought 50g of it today. I plan to use <1g of it and do some controlled tests next year, with the correct PPE of course. I look forward to sharing the results with everyone because that's how science works and the literature suggests it may have interesting results. Maybe nothing happens, that's the point.

I don't believe in doing nothing because of avoidable health risks. Again if you read the literature it's no more dangerous than other common chemicals in your shed. People have used it for decades.

 
Messages
179
Reaction score
423
Location
Alaska
USDA Zone
2
I'm not a proponent of chlormequat (I just learned about it from this thread) but I bought 50g of it today. I plan to use <1g of it and do some controlled tests next year, with the correct PPE of course. I look forward to sharing the results with everyone because that's how science works and the literature suggests it may have interesting results. Maybe nothing happens, that's the point.

I don't believe in doing nothing because of avoidable health risks. Again if you read the literature it's no more dangerous than other common chemicals in your shed. People have used it for decades.


here is an epa document on chlormequat chloride if anyone is interested.
 

Shogun610

Omono
Messages
1,721
Reaction score
2,170
Location
Pennsylvania
USDA Zone
6B
So bad that my neurologist made me swear I will never use it.
Haha ok everyone thinks my input is a joke or unsubstantiated…… I’ve got a lot of education and job experience around chemistry/ chemicals both food grade and non food grade…… I don’t disagree with testing it yourself if you have a low amount or follow PPE protocols. Yeah , following toxicity principles the dose makes the toxin , not the toxin itself.
Some are more stringent , depending on chemical structures, especially synthetic chemicals that use branch chain hydrocarbons , aromatics , or pyridines … not all adverse affects on health or environment are acute , most are chronic so I was just voicing my thoughts… yeah no more different than chemicals in your shed. Guess I’m just different I make a conscious effort to know what chemical contents are in what I buy.. and am conscious of even chemicals labeled as an organic cleaning,gardening,body care stuff.
 
Last edited:

Lorax7

Chumono
Messages
777
Reaction score
992
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5b
At a minimum, you probably need a RUP license to use something like this (if it's even approved for use outside a lab).

(Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. This isn't legal advice.)
 
Top Bottom