Chojubai root over rock start

[b3bowen]

Thanks for everyone who replied to my previous post regarding Soil attributes for chojubai. Finally got a red one, and it looks very healthy. My goal would be for it to look like this in 35 years...



my first question is, from what I read quince should be reported August/September. Average nighttime temperatures here are still around 70. And I’ve read to wait till nighttime temperatures are 65 before repotting. Clearly I am going to be very on careful untangling the roots on my new plant and I will not be cutting off any roots but should I repot now, or continue to wait until early September?

Second question, I have two stones to choose from. Which would you vote for, stone one or stone two



Clearly if the roots fit significantly better on one rock or the other I would choose the one with the best fit. However, I lean towards the first darker stone, as I think it will contrast better with the gray Roughbark over time. Even though you can’t tell in the photos, the stones are about the same size.

 

[b3bowen]

Here is a photograph of the new plant.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I would wait for fall to repot or do root work

 

[b3bowen]

I would wait for fall to repot or do root work

My climate is warmer than yours, but when you say fall, do you mean October?

 

[roberthu]

My climate is warmer than yours, but when you say fall, do you mean October?

Generally yes. The temperature should be lower than 80F and the low should be above 50F. That's when the water transpiration is not excessive while the roots are still actively growing. You do need to be more careful to over winter it after fall work. The new growth on roots will be much more susceptible to cold damage. I'd bring it into a unhetated garage whenever this is a possibility to drop below freezing.

 

[Clicio]

I would use rock number one, the dark rounded one.

 

[Cadillactaste]

My climate is warmer than yours, but when you say fall, do you mean October?

Brent told me early fall. He lives in California. Its where my chojubai came from. You state warmer climate. But no location...nor is your profile filled out. So shared his website which tells his location. Maybe that might help you.

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[b3bowen]

Brent told me early fall. He lives in California. Its where my chojubai came from. You state warmer climate. But no location...nor is your profile filled out. So shared his website which tells his location. Maybe that might help you.

About Us

Im in North Carolina zone 7b. Brent is 8b it appears.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Then early fall I imagine a good point to shoot for.

As for which rock. A lot of factors. Visual being key. You won't know until you go to do it. Let your gut tell you. Trust me...the tree will whisper which to use.

 

[0soyoung]

The temperature should be lower than 80F and the low should be above 50F. That's when the water transpiration is not excessive while the roots are still actively growing.

Transpiration is driven by the water potential of the air which is principally a function of the relative humidity. The water (chemical) potential of the air varies as ln(rH)/T where rH=relative Humidity and T is the Kelvin temperature (C+273)

Over the carbon fixing range of temperatures (in which trees grow),
41F-->5C-->278k.
95F-->35C-->308k
the reciprocal Kelvin temperature varies only by about 10% (30/300). For a given dew point air mass, the logarithm of the rH is far more variable in most real climates.

See this old post for further detail and some easily understood charts.

 

[leatherback]

Have no idea about when to repot these. My gut would be to say.. Why in fall, and why not in spring?

In any case, I would use neither rock. Too little interest and too smooth for roots to really hook onto. This species grows very slowly and you will find yourself a decade from now still not having it merged. If you are on a 25 year plan, include finding a suitable rock in the plan.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Have no idea about when to repot these. My gut would be to say.. Why in fall, and why not in spring?

In any case, I would use neither rock. Too little interest and too smooth for roots to really hook onto. This species grows very slowly and you will find yourself a decade from now still not having it merged. If you are on a 25 year plan, include finding a suitable rock in the plan.

People do spring repots as well...but fall repots with these are toted to be safer. They are known to get pathogens in the substrate that can kill them. Claim is fall plantings you lower that risk. That Brent suggested fall repot for the one I got in spring. To me said a lot.

 

[Mycin]

People do spring repots as well...but fall repots with these are toted to be safer. They are known to get pathogens in the substrate that can kill them. Claim is fall plantings you lower that risk. That Brent suggested fall repot for the one I got in spring. To me said a lot.

He seems to be a bigger proponent of fall repotting than most, and the logic is sound to me. Why not take advantage of the period in which the roots do much of their growing?

I've seen it recommended to plant landscape quince in the fall because Root node nematodes can be a threat after planting in the ground and planting before winter helps prevent them from taking hold before the tree gets established. This shouldn't be a threat with bonsai soil though

 

[HorseloverFat]

You won't know until you go to do it. Let your gut tell you. Trust me...the tree will whisper which to use.

THIS information! (I know nothing about this species, so I’ll discuss the rocks)

I keep visualizing your project in different angles.. both rocks....

There’s merit to every configuration..

It’s all about “your tree and YOU”

I’d PERSONALLY use the 2nd rock.. but that’s just MY style... what MY “art” feels directionally compelled to follow.. your’s may be different.

 

[Clicio]

I've seen it recommended to plant landscape quince in the fall because Root node nematodes can be a threat after planting in the ground...

I have lost my Fall window timing and didn't repot my quinces, but...
They have not been in the ground, they are up in stands, their root systems seem to be ok, and I will repot next month, at the beginning of the Spring.
I don't think bad nematodes will be an issue, but let's see.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Location, Location, Location. - and how you winter your trees after late summer or autumn repotting makes all the difference in the world. Brent Walston is in California, the OP is in North Carolina. Clicio is in Brazil.

Chaenomeles, all flowering quince, are "traditionally" repotted in late summer or sometime in autumn, in part to avoid transmission of nematodes. But using modern inorganic substrates, or sterile or pasteurized substrate, and avoiding setting pots on the ground, keeping pots on benches or shelves off the ground has largely eliminated the issue of root nematodes. This was the initial reason traditionally given for autumn repotting.

In cold winter climates, like mine, I routinely store my late summer & autumn repotted trees in a well house that stays above freezing for the winter. In other words, I give freshly repotted trees extra protection for the winter. My normal habit for wintering trees, is to merely set the on the ground and let them "deal with it", experiencing my -15 F or -26 C winters without any protection from temperatures. (I do this for zone 5 and colder zone trees) All my zone 6, 7 & warmer requiring trees get the above freezing well house regardless.

So "when" autumn occurs depends on your individual location. And the amount of follow up protection depends on your location.

We all need to "do the math" and adjust any advice given from the author's calendar to our personal location's calendar. And make adjustments for differences in the author's climates compared to our individual climates.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Location, Location, Location. - and how you winter your trees after late summer or autumn repotting makes all the difference in the world. Brent Walston is in California, the OP is in North Carolina. Clicio is in Brazil.

Chaenomeles, all flowering quince, are "traditionally" repotted in late summer or sometime in autumn, in part to avoid transmission of nematodes. But using modern inorganic substrates, or sterile or pasteurized substrate, and avoiding setting pots on the ground, keeping pots on benches or shelves off the ground has largely eliminated the issue of root nematodes. This was the initial reason traditionally given for autumn repotting.

In cold winter climates, like mine, I routinely store my late summer & autumn repotted trees in a well house that stays above freezing for the winter. In other words, I give freshly repotted trees extra protection for the winter. My normal habit for wintering trees, is to merely set the on the ground and let them "deal with it", experiencing my -15 F or -26 C winters without any protection from temperatures. (I do this for zone 5 and colder zone trees) All my zone 6, 7 & warmer requiring trees get the above freezing well house regardless.

So "when" autumn occurs depends on your individual location. And the amount of follow up protection depends on your location.

We all need to "do the math" and adjust any advice given from the author's calendar to our personal location's calendar. And make adjustments for differences in the author's climates compared to our individual climates.

True enough. I winter in a controlled cold greenhouse.

 

[Dav4]

FWIW, I’ve killed chojubai post spring AND fall repottings in 7b N GA...

 

[Cadillactaste]

FWIW, I’ve killed chojubai post spring AND fall repottings in 7b N GA...

Can you grow them at all?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

FWIW, I’ve killed chojubai post spring AND fall repottings in 7b N GA...

I hate to admit, but I have started over with 'Chojubai' more times than I care to admit. My current resident 'Chojubai' I've had for 3 years now. It is not the easiest of the Chaenomeles to grow. I find 'Contorted White' to be the most vigorous and the sturdiest of the cultivars commonly used for bonsai. 'Toyo Nishiki' is also quite a tough, resilient plant. I find 'Chojubai' to be delicate, or fussy. It drops leaves easily. It dies easily. It is not as winter hardy as the other 2 mentioned. Frankly, if it wasn't so photogenic in those bonsai magazine photos, I wonder if anyone would bother with it at all. It has never performed well for me. I bought my first cuttings of 'Chojubai' back around 1980, and have never had one last more than 5 or 6 years. Usually after one dies, I try to figure out what went wrong and try again. So over the last 40 years, I've owned at least 7 different young plants of 'Chojubai'. I'm a serial killer. Yet other flowering quinces post many fewer problems.