Chop advice...

JesusFreak

Shohin
Messages
356
Reaction score
277
Location
Tifton, Ga
USDA Zone
8B
Should I chop this below the split or above so that I leave a split? It’s my first trunk chop
 

Attachments

  • EF96FFF6-EA20-4BD7-BE3A-D47BB09E1274.jpeg
    EF96FFF6-EA20-4BD7-BE3A-D47BB09E1274.jpeg
    297.9 KB · Views: 152
  • 2B2E7C3A-778A-44BF-A1C5-BEE8C1A4A61D.jpeg
    2B2E7C3A-778A-44BF-A1C5-BEE8C1A4A61D.jpeg
    199.4 KB · Views: 187

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,210
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
You have not specified which split you mean. I can see several trunk forks in the pics.
Nor have you offered any view of what style you would like to develop after the chop.

It may be quick to post just a few words but lack of info makes it muc harder to offer meaningful advice.

This appears to be a Chinese elm. the lower trunk is vertical and splits into several sub trunks. Both those attributes suggest broom style to me.

I can't properly assess a tree's 3D possibilities but I think pruning above the first and second forks would probably give you the basis for a reasonable broom style Chinese elm bonsai.
Cuts marked in red here
JF CE.PNG

I've cut the larger trunk a little lower than the smaller left ones to allow for the new branches growing from the larger side to grow a bit before more cuts to add ramification. the fork on the left side is just about right for broom style ramification so prune above that fork.

If you were planning on another different style let us know so people can offer informed suggestions.
 

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,911
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
You may get away with a chop of this magnitude however; in general a chop this large without active growth above the chop usually ends in disaster.
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,210
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
You may get away with a chop of this magnitude however; in general a chop this large without active growth above the chop usually ends in disaster.
Very interesting. I've done many large chops on Chinese elms and can't remember a failure to shoot -bare trunks or not.
They usually make loads of buds from the exposed cambium around the edge of the cut.

Difference in climate, variety or just dumb luck?
 

JesusFreak

Shohin
Messages
356
Reaction score
277
Location
Tifton, Ga
USDA Zone
8B
Sorry about that. Yea it’s a drake elm. The bark had to be cleaned up. You can tell this tree is really old. It has a good bit of twist to the bad of the tree. Very intriguing and I’ll try and post a better photo.
Broom style is what the tree screams to me.
so you’re saying cut the big trunk let the other side grow then cut the small one maybe next year? I also build an 18”x18 grow box for it yesterday.
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,210
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
As mentioned I have never had any problem with U. parvifolia budding after drastic chops so if it were mine I would make the 3 cuts at the same time. You can do the large cut now and wait a year for the next cuts if you like but I think that is just delaying the rebuild.

The grow box should help the tree to grow strongly after the chops. It will need to grow to help the new shoots gain size and for the large cuts to heal.

There is no snow in your photos and the tree has leaves so I assume you are not far north. Advice can be climate specific so adding a location to your profile will allow others to understand your climate and should help get you better advice tailored to your area. Obviously don't post your address but country, state or nearby city would help.
 

JesusFreak

Shohin
Messages
356
Reaction score
277
Location
Tifton, Ga
USDA Zone
8B
South Georgia, USA. Tifton to be exact. Yea I think I’m just gonna chop it all off. I’ve also heard conflicting things when it comes to the root pruning and trUNK shop at the same time. Don’t plan on doing a drastic root prune but maybe just cleans some things up.
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,851
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
Either the broom/style (or broom form, if the lower trunk isn't totally straight) will work, or you could chop off the thicker trunk to a single trunk line off the smaller fork (chop back those leaders, too). Chinese elm will bud back on old wood no problem. Be sure to seal the chop(s).
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
You should probly clean the moss off the trunk.

Though it will backbud, having the trunk actually exposed to sun before will help buds get the idea before you chop it.

A shady trunk will have limited budding.

Plus if new shoots have to fight to get passed a moss Matt, they may lose.

Add any little pest problem and this tree COULD be toast before it relives.

So I'm with Vance.

Sorce
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Nevermind, I understand what he meant by Growth above the chop.

I'm looking for growth below the chop.

Still with Vance though, cuz why not!?

Sorce
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,851
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
All of my Chinese elms are out now, which should be the case for all of them here in the South, so I do not understand what the issue would be with chopping this tree now. We're into March and warming up by the day. You have a healthy supply of energy below the soil, so when you chop the trunk back the tree is going to respond by trying to regrow what you cut off. That's about as good as it gets. Chinese elms are tough as nails, very hard to kill.
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,210
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
It is not really possible to accurately tell the age of a tree grown in a pot. Some of the Chinese elm varieties are chosen because they have special older looking bark, even when they are younger. If this tree was grown and looked after well it could be as young as 5 years. If it was neglected and had to struggle it could be as old as 20 or 30 years.
When you chop the larger trunk you could try counting growth rings. While not completely accurate it will give and indication as to whether this one is older or only young.

Plus if new shoots have to fight to get passed a moss Matt, they may lose.
Chinese elm are not like most other species that only bud from old nodes. Chinese elm have the ability to produce new buds from exposed cambium. Most of the buds after a trunk chop will be in a ring around the cambium right at the cut site. They will not have to fight anything except each other to grow and there are usually dozens vying for space. You will need to selectively thin the new buds and retain just 2 or 3 or the cut site will swell badly.

Chinese elms are tough as nails, very hard to kill.
That is also my experience. I have lost a couple after root pruning before mid winter - possible infection through the cuts while dormant? I have one in the grow beds that has been chopped repeatedly and treated with glyphosate several times and still comes back.
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,851
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
That is also my experience. I have lost a couple after root pruning before mid winter - possible infection through the cuts while dormant? I have one in the grow beds that has been chopped repeatedly and treated with glyphosate several times and still comes back.
You've found the Achilles heel of Chinese elm. I never do any drastic work, including lifting, until bud swell. They just don't like being messed with during dormancy (at least for me).
 

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,911
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
Do what you think will work. However if you already had an opinion as to what would happen why did you ask in the first place?
 

JesusFreak

Shohin
Messages
356
Reaction score
277
Location
Tifton, Ga
USDA Zone
8B
Well I bit the bullet and chopped her down
 

Attachments

  • FDD6913A-2B45-40E4-B8FD-B260B8506341.jpeg
    FDD6913A-2B45-40E4-B8FD-B260B8506341.jpeg
    279.1 KB · Views: 105
  • 003E590D-3740-4B30-B7A7-5AAE751C8726.jpeg
    003E590D-3740-4B30-B7A7-5AAE751C8726.jpeg
    281.9 KB · Views: 84

JesusFreak

Shohin
Messages
356
Reaction score
277
Location
Tifton, Ga
USDA Zone
8B
So I’ve been optimistic on this guy and still am, but I would have thought that it would be growing differently. Don’t understand why it’s doing this and will it ever change? 1A756015-F913-420B-848B-39AFD25686C6.jpeg
 

leatherback

The Treedeemer
Messages
13,937
Reaction score
26,872
Location
Northern Germany
USDA Zone
7
I think you never gave it the time to understand there is light on the bark, so it could bud there. And.. There were branches down low.

If the bark higher up is alive you could be lucky to get more buds higher up. I guess I would have sealed the chop site to reduce the drying out on top.
 

JesusFreak

Shohin
Messages
356
Reaction score
277
Location
Tifton, Ga
USDA Zone
8B
Yes I was advised to chop and repot. I sealed as well. There is some black bark on it that I cleaned initially but didn’t get all of it.
 
Top Bottom