Chop below nodes?

[Deleted member 24479]

Hi all, I know maples generally backbud from the internodes, although not always. I have a trident I ground grew and chopped a few times, and transferred into a nursery container this year. I made an error somewhere along the way and the growth for what would become the apex was a little too vigorous. I'm left now with the decision to either chop below the node, thereby risking dieback, and hope I get some adventitious budding come spring, or use what I have and attempt to conceal as best I can my out-of-proportion apical section. Any guidance, advice or opinion is greatly appreciated.

 

[Shibui]

Maybe some misunderstanding of terminology but maples backbud from nodes, not from internodes.
There are nodes and therefore dormant buds at any previous junction.
From the pics I guess the part in question is the section between the thicker trunk and the 2 new apical branches? If you chop anywhere on that section you should get good budding from the base of that part- ie at the top of the thicker trunk section. Whether any of those buds will grow to become a better replacement leader is in the hands of the bonsai gods.

An alternative would be to try a thread or approach graft part way up the leader in question. There is still a chance things may not work out but grafting allows us to pick the spot and direction of any new growth.

 

[leatherback]

maples [like most trees] backbud from nodes, not from internodes

As an add-on: When chopping and growing out, it is worth letting the new leader start slow, e.g., do the trunk chop mid-spring: You will get shorter internodes and therefor better options for subsequent chops. If chopping in winter, the resulting spring-flush is often coarse with long internodes

As an example, I tried to highlight some of the nodes where it is clear the internodes are long, or shorter:

 

[SeanS]

What’s wrong with using these buds at this node?

 

[sorce]

I may not understand the problem, which may be why I'm not seeing it.

I would be much more concerned with these branches ruining your movement and creating reverse taper.


Letting that right lowest branch grow out to correct the reverse taper.

And getting it the hell out of a nursery pot!
That would be to help the base flare to add to your low trunk growth further fixing that reverse taper.

I despise nursery pots, because they make for mostly useless roots that Must be cut off later. It pains me to see things put back into them, they are in the top 3 banes of bonsai. It's a move In reverse IMO.

A tisket a tasket put everything in baskets!

Sorce

 

[Ugo]

I may not understand the problem, which may be why I'm not seeing it.

I would be much more concerned with these branches ruining your movement and creating reverse taper.
View attachment 413300

Letting that right lowest branch grow out to correct the reverse taper.

And getting it the hell out of a nursery pot!
That would be to help the base flare to add to your low trunk growth further fixing that reverse taper.

I despise nursery pots, because they make for mostly useless roots that Must be cut off later. It pains me to see things put back into them, they are in the top 3 banes of bonsai. It's a move In reverse IMO.

A tisket a tasket put everything in baskets!

Sorce

You are right Sorce, I also thinks the reverse taper is an issue in this case but I think there could be an interresting solution.

I think you could carv into the wood on the right side of the trunk just above the right lower branch were a big cut has been made.

Remove a good chunck of wood there while shaping the movement of the trunk and remove the branches growing on the left side as stated above.
Im sure the tree could look good with a shari.

 

[sorce]

with a shari.

I don't mess with trident, but @Smoke laid out some interesting information that says a trident with so much deadwood on one side can destroy it to the roots. If I recall, that branch below could be the saving grace of the death to the roots, but I don't trust rabbits that much.

I think people underestimate the power of growth, seeking too much to reduce to an outline.
Shame that knowledge came from another person who no longer frequents this site because of tight panties....but....perhaps we can still search "deleted member" for that knowledge.

Sorce

 

[Ugo]

Hi!

I dont want to lead anybody to false information but I was under the impression it was something possible.
I always liked decidious with deadwood but to be honest I dont know how each species would react to the operation.
Good thing you brought some advises.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Straight section below Deer antlers needs to go. Buds you show can be good option. Low branches no worry, can be good future branch. Reverse taper already present can be dealt with later with change of view angle.

 

[SeanS]

Seems a pity to ground grow a trunk and then spoil it (in my opinion) with a bit chunk of forever rotting deadwood. Deadwood isn’t generally valued in maples (tridents or Japanese maples)

 

[Davidlpf]

Hi all, I know maples generally backbud from the internodes, although not always. I have a trident I ground grew and chopped a few times, and transferred into a nursery container this year. I made an error somewhere along the way and the growth for what would become the apex was a little too vigorous. I'm left now with the decision to either chop below the node, thereby risking dieback, and hope I get some adventitious budding come spring, or use what I have and attempt to conceal as best I can my out-of-proportion apical section. Any guidance, advice or opinion is greatly appreciated.

You have a third option: Make a thread graft for a new branch in the right place, and make a new leader from that. May it'll be take more time, but also it'll be more secure and accurate.





Cheers.