Chunky Blue Atlas

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Wireme's double apex joint comes to mind.

When a branch is too big to be a branch, it becomes a trunk, if that doesn't work, then remove it.

Sorce

This video from Mirai was what had me considering not immediately discarding it. He decides to keep the big branch because "sometimes old trees have an odd sized branch". I hope this isn't against any rules but here is a screen cap of the tree midway through.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I watched the one where he was refining a huge atlas, I'll have to see if he has any styling and progression. It seems like even they don't do much cedrus. I believe that makes the ones you see that much more spectacular. I watched his beginner videos on YouTube and immediately decided it was worth $20 a month to have someone actually explain. I'm feeling way better about the 10+ nursery repots I get to do in the spring/early summer. I was starting to think I was more addicted to buying trees than I was ready to deal with.

Wonderfully excellent is this particular Live Stream and largely or completely refutes all mr. know-it-all tells you you must do. Tree sheds most of manicured by rules phonyness to look natural and actually interesting instead.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I hope this isn't against any rules

Observing Mirai Live Streams should soon show you natural interesting Bonsai as Ryan creates do not follow "rule book" any more than cannot be avoided. However where rule followed he shows reason as in explaining about use and removal of bar branch.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Observing Mirai Live Streams should soon show you natural interesting Bonsai as Ryan creates do not follow "rule book" any more than cannot be avoided. However where rule followed he shows reason as in explaining about use and removal of bar branch.

Yeah I have really learned a lot already. They do an awesome job showing what they are doing and why, like the philosophy behind it or where he learned it. I love how he keeps going back to natural inspiration for his ideas. For some reason I feel like damaged trees should be especially natural looking. That's just me and not for any reason I can think of though. Thinking about the mass of a trees foliage hanging one direction impacting how a root should reach out to support that weight makes more sense in my head than hearing "judges would say the nebari is insufficient".

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Wonderfully excellent is this particular Live Stream and largely or completely refutes all mr. know-it-all tells you you must do. Tree sheds most of manicured by rules phonyness to look natural and actually interesting instead.

I was impressed by the original as he got it, because wow that is a lot of tree and work. When he got done though, I thought OK now that is a tree instead of a sculpture.

 

[BobbyLane]

I watched the one where he was refining a huge atlas, I'll have to see if he has any styling and progression. It seems like even they don't do much cedrus. I believe that makes the ones you see that much more spectacular. I watched his beginner videos on YouTube and immediately decided it was worth $20 a month to have someone actually explain. I'm feeling way better about the 10+ nursery repots I get to do in the spring/early summer. I was starting to think I was more addicted to buying trees than I was ready to deal with.

i think you can take something from all of his work on conifers. in terms of

@bonsainut im not sure if its my phone or the site but everytime i go to delete text it only allows me to do one letter at a time before the screen drops. hard to explain but something isnt right

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

It seems to me he keeps saying "all conifers" when doing repotting at least, even when asked about different species a few times. I know they listen to the viewers so I might see if I could request some more cedrus progression and working stuff.

I get weird text box behavior too but I actually think it's my mobile browser that goes wonky occasionally.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

I'm thinking something along these lines.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

I think this might be what it wants to be.

 

[Adair M]

I think this might be what it wants to be.
View attachment 328229

You apparently have a weeping form of the Blue Atlas Cedar. Some weep, most don’t. Yours appears to weep naturally.

So, what IT wants to do have cascading branches. All the forms you have been choosing for it are NOT what the tree is doing.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Your tree is full of possibilities! Here’s my thoughts after years of hiking in the wilderness.

I like the idea of keeping the Jin, but lowering it a bit and fracturing it so that the Jin is down somewhat where the trunk is thicker. In other words, craft the Jin so it looks like an old growth tree where winds constantly break off the tops. Maybe even pruning the top branches off to help the image.

Looking forward to seeing what you make of it!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Your tree is full of possibilities! Here’s my thoughts after years of hiking in the wilderness.

I like the idea of keeping the Jin, but lowering it a bit and fracturing it so that the Jin is down somewhat where the trunk is thicker. In other words, craft the Jin so it looks like an old growth tree where winds constantly break off the tops. Maybe even pruning the top branches off to help the image.

Looking forward to seeing what you make of it!

cheers
DSD sends

I'm definitely planning to break down a ways and Jin the large upturned branch. I'll be going kind of Mirai style natural inspired. It seems like this tree starts droopy on the young branches flat in the mediums and upward in the oldest branches. I've seen this a lot in photos of old trees like this one. It looks weird to me but I like the odd mix and appreciate the natural look more than the follow the rules sculpture look.
Cedar is pretty soft so I've heard deadwood need to be large to survive "naturally".

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I’ll be willing to bet that the oily cedar deadwood lasts a a lot longer than you’d think.... unless, of course, it gets too close to a flame

 

[YAN]

Hello Dear,

i got a similar cedar but cedrus libani 3 years ago, I don’t feel comfortable to tell you what to do as a beginner but i can tell you what i did wrong, what i did right (in my opinion) and you choose from the list.

Right:
-Took my time to decide what to do didn’t touch it for a month, it took me whole season to prune unwanted branches, sometimes a branch a week.
-checked the nebari first or else it was doomed cause it had only one possible front.
-did not shorten branches i want to keep until deciding final silhouette.

Wrong:
-Went to the traditional triangle shape of bonsai by the rules (many other options)
-Removed leaf clusters close to the trunk to have the bare branch then canopy concept, dont do that, closer the canopy to the trunk the more mature the tree will look (just like that video of Ryan).
-Jinned branches too short and at the wrong angle, train branches you want to jin the same direction as other branches before you jin it and leave them long, you can always shorten it later.

side notes:
-Never bare root, I killed many.
-don’t know about atlas but libani never backbud from old wood, only buds from clusters that already has needles on, not even from old clusters without needles.
-full sun.
-Your tree trunk has better taper taper then mine so you can go taller but you have less branches to choose from.
-You can go with it’s natural look (although hard to achieve on small scale) or any other species characteristics (needs much wiring, everything will grow downwards), i have many atlas cedars around me I’ll send you pics of some monster ones soon.

 

[YukiShiro]

Like that cedar!

here is a quick sketch, uhm not the best, but you will get the general Idea.


more branches are needed in my sketch to fill out the tree. that big fork, jin right branch, and do a ten jin a bit higher up on the left.
I think it will make a nice bonsai in a few years. Good to practice on I think

ps. excuse the bad sketch

best regards
Herman

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

That is an awesome libani! So far I find mostly green prince libani around here. I must admit I'm a bit intimidated by wiring these guys with the crazy dense buds. It'll honestly probably be post repot before I try removing much foliage from my atlas. It's also really tough to take pictures of the tree because the density and color seem to make it look like one big mass. I'm excited to get some of it cleaned out so it's not so difficult to get ideas. I've terribly drawn a couple too, trying to use only branches and pads that already exist. It may change though because it feels like I have a couple more inches of trunk under the root and nursery soil.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Hello Dear,

i got a similar cedar but cedrus libani 3 years ago, I don’t feel comfortable to tell you what to do as a beginner but i can tell you what i did wrong, what i did right (in my opinion) and you choose from the list.

Right:
-Took my time to decide what to do didn’t touch it for a month, it took me whole season to prune unwanted branches, sometimes a branch a week.
-checked the nebari first or else it was doomed cause it had only one possible front.
-did not shorten branches i want to keep until deciding final silhouette.

Wrong:
-Went to the traditional triangle shape of bonsai by the rules (many other options)
-Removed leaf clusters close to the trunk to have the bare branch then canopy concept, dont do that, closer the canopy to the trunk the more mature the tree will look (just like that video of Ryan).
-Jinned branches too short and at the wrong angle, train branches you want to jin the same direction as other branches before you jin it and leave them long, you can always shorten it later.

side notes:
-Never bare root, I killed many.
-don’t know about atlas but libani never backbud from old wood, only buds from clusters that already has needles on, not even from old clusters without needles.
-full sun.
-Your tree trunk has better taper taper then mine so you can go taller but you have less branches to choose from.
-You can go with it’s natural look (although hard to achieve on small scale) or any other species characteristics (needs much wiring, everything will grow downwards), i have many atlas cedars around me I’ll send you pics of some monster ones soon.

View attachment 328254View attachment 328255View attachment 328256View attachment 328257View attachment 328258View attachment 328259View attachment 328260

That would be awesome to have some more natural pictures! I'm definitely leaning toward the natural old tree look rather than the younger Christmas tree look.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@ProfessorFarnsworth
I have a couple thoughts.

You need to repot this into a training flat, box or a bonsai pot, before beginning work on this. You need to find out where the nebari is, and what it looks like. I would delay beginning work until after the repotting and root work is done, and the tree has recovered from the root work. During the wait for it to recover from root work, you can contemplate possible designs.

You have a very nice piece of material there. If this were mine I would absolutely abandon the designs you have been proposing. I would go with the design suggested by @Adair M , your tree has naturally pendulous branches, This is an attractive trait and it suggests great age. Most conifers, descending branches are an indication of great age, including in redwood. All you designs you have been proposing have ascending branches, which means you will be fighting the natural tendency of this particular cultivar of Atlas Cedar. While Ryan Neil is a good artist, the Cedars he was working with all had naturally ascending branches. In his design he was not reversing the natural tendency of the tree he was working with. Consider working with, rather than against the natural trait of your tree.

Of course it is your tree. But if it were mine I would seriously consider using the design with descending branches. The thick secondary trunk up high in the tree needs to be removed or at least jinned and reduced in size. If you train all those descending branches to become horizontal or ascending, you will make the tree look younger. With descending branches it looks older.

 

[Adair M]

@ProfessorFarnsworth
I have a couple thoughts.

You need to repot this into a training flat, box or a bonsai pot, before beginning work on this. You need to find out where the nebari is, and what it looks like. I would delay beginning work until after the repotting and root work is done, and the tree has recovered from the root work. During the wait for it to recover from root work, you can contemplate possible designs.

You have a very nice piece of material there. If this were mine I would absolutely abandon the designs you have been proposing. I would go with the design suggested by @Adair M , your tree has naturally pendulous branches, This is an attractive trait and it suggests great age. Most conifers, descending branches are an indication of great age, including in redwood. All you designs you have been proposing have ascending branches, which means you will be fighting the natural tendency of this particular cultivar of Atlas Cedar. While Ryan Neil is a good artist, the Cedars he was working with all had naturally ascending branches. In his design he was not reversing the natural tendency of the tree he was working with. Consider working with, rather than against the natural trait of your tree.

Of course it is your tree. But if it were mine I would seriously consider using the design with descending branches. The thick secondary trunk up high in the tree needs to be removed or at least jinned and reduced in size. If you train all those descending branches to become horizontal or ascending, you will make the tree look younger. With descending branches it looks older.

Leo, I think Farnsworth ought to send a picture of the tree to Ryan and ask if he would style it using the pendulous branches, or try to force them up like the video.

I bet Farnsworth will be surprised with Ryan’s response!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@ProfessorFarnsworth
Since you are a member of Mirai, you should take advantage of the opportunity, and consultant with Ryan.