Chunky Blue Atlas

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@ProfessorFarnsworth
I have a couple thoughts.

You need to repot this into a training flat, box or a bonsai pot, before beginning work on this. You need to find out where the nebari is, and what it looks like. I would delay beginning work until after the repotting and root work is done, and the tree has recovered from the root work. During the wait for it to recover from root work, you can contemplate possible designs.

You have a very nice piece of material there. If this were mine I would absolutely abandon the designs you have been proposing. I would go with the design suggested by @Adair M , your tree has naturally pendulous branches, This is an attractive trait and it suggests great age. Most conifers, descending branches are an indication of great age, including in redwood. All you designs you have been proposing have ascending branches, which means you will be fighting the natural tendency of this particular cultivar of Atlas Cedar. While Ryan Neil is a good artist, the Cedars he was working with all had naturally ascending branches. In his design he was not reversing the natural tendency of the tree he was working with. Consider working with, rather than against the natural trait of your tree.

Of course it is your tree. But if it were mine I would seriously consider using the design with descending branches. The thick secondary trunk up high in the tree needs to be removed or at least jinned and reduced in size. If you train all those descending branches to become horizontal or ascending, you will make the tree look younger. With descending branches it looks older.
Yeah I'm planning to just leave it as happy and healthy as possible till a repot next year then see how it reacts. I'm hoping to find a large deeper than typical but semi-respectable pot for round 1.
It is remarkably hard to find cedrus progression information so I guess I assumed they trained them to position like any other bonsai. The only video Ryan really has on cedrus was tree that had been developed for 40 years. I'm only trying to plan and I've just been using pictures of atlas cedar forest for inspiration.
 
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Leo, I think Farnsworth ought to send a picture of the tree to Ryan and ask if he would style it using the pendulous branches, or try to force them up like the video.

I bet Farnsworth will be surprised with Ryan’s response!
Honestly if I can I would love that! I'm still having a hard time seeing designs in there so I'm just trying to use the pics as inspiration it just seemed like the older guys were the flat tops and fluffy tufts.
 
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Oh also I guess I saw the branches go up first then turn down when they get long so I figured they would raise some naturally when I remove the weight. Again painful lack of "what to do with cedar" info.
 
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@ProfessorFarnsworth
Since you are a member of Mirai, you should take advantage of the opportunity, and consultant with Ryan.
I was unaware this was a thing. I'm not looking for hand holding just how to start. I thought looking at old natural specimens would be a good start. Mirai has just been a refreshingly huge amount information and I'm blown away what a piece of nursery stock in his hands turns into.
 

Adair M

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Your particular tree is a “weeping cultivar”. Use that to your advantage.

To get rid of any arch, use this technique:

C6FA27F9-0F59-4382-90B9-B2642A848DCF.jpeg

There is, by the way, a thread about a double trunk Alberta Spruce where the owner used this technique recently. Check it out,

And for styling ideas, here is a diagram from one of John Naka’s books:

40982468-EAFB-469A-B55F-BA1B05525042.jpeg

That ought to get your started.
 
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Your particular tree is a “weeping cultivar”. Use that to your advantage.

To get rid of any arch, use this technique:

View attachment 328358

There is, by the way, a thread about a double trunk Alberta Spruce where the owner used this technique recently. Check it out,

And for styling ideas, here is a diagram from one of John Naka’s books:

View attachment 328359

That ought to get your started.
Oh wow that is some next level wiring. What do you use for the little protector pads in the image?

Oh I see that is the steel bar. Up the back I guess that makes sense. Then just a tensioned guy wire to the pot.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I keep pieces of old rubber hose I can cut to fit to pad things like that.
Is it just because the amount of pressure that needs to be applied would cut in hard on top of how long it takes to get a bend to take in these softer woods? Do you put some between the bar and the branch too I would guess so it doesn't rust?
 

Adair M

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Generally just on the pressure points. I don’t worry about rust.

The time it takes is very “it depends”!

Atlas cedar takes a long, long time! It’s very sappy and springy! You’ll have to remove the wire when it cuts in, and then rewire, taking care to avoid the wire scars the second, third, and fourth times!

They’re kinda like painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Constantly have wire.
 

Adair M

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Just so you know... that smooth grey bark your tree had? That’s juvenile bark. Young bark. After about 20 to 25 years, it will start to crack. And then, over the next ten years or so, it will get rougher and rougher. After another 10 to 15 years, it will start to develop a mature “plated” bark.

Only then, will it truely appear to be “aged”.

Cedars and JWP, share thus characteristic about having juvenile bark. With JWP, the juvi bark flakes off. Atlas Cedar, it doesn’t flake off, it fissures, and makes plates. In any event, it takes a long, long time!
 
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I had read that and I was actually wondering if this is the start of that. I have no idea how old this guy might be it had no tags at all on it when I found it hiding.
20200910_163920.jpg
 

canoeguide

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Oh wow that is some next level wiring. What do you use for the little protector pads in the image?

Old pieces of bicycle tire inner tube work - you can double them up if needed. A short length of aquarium airline tubing slipped over the wire to cushion the branch also works.
 
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Old pieces of bicycle tire inner tube work - you can double them up if needed. A short length of aquarium airline tubing slipped over the wire to cushion the branch also works.
Ah nice. I actually have a couple bike tubes I could sacrifice for this, good call!
 
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View attachment 328399
Taper to height not bad here. Leaving an apical jin is always a good idea.
$50 well worth the deal IMO.
It seems like the trunk goes down a couple inches into the pot and then flares some but that's purely just trying to gently probe into the crazy dense roots in the top. So hopefully I find something nice down there. All my other conifers seem to be toward the top of the pot, I hear they usually push up out of the pot instead of roots going above the ball but this guy said screw that apparently.
 
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