Cleaned this up, should it be multi-trunk or other?

[ForThemWhatCare]

I'm new to bonsai so I picked up some end of year nursey stock to practice on. I cleaned this up and then stopped until spring because I was unsure what this can be. It's a natural clump but I'm at a loss on how to develop it. I have till spring to make decisions but if it was yours what would you do?

 

[Clicio]

At the moment two things bother me the most;
- The straight up second trunk on the left;
- The straight dead on frontal branch that wants to be a trunk.
I will not risk a suggestion to take care of those issues, as chopchopchop is my second name.

 

[JoeR]

If thats a dwarf Alberta spruce, that's one of the better pieces of material I've seen. Your main problem will be pushing the foliage closer to the trunks, aka getting backbudding. How to do that, I dont know as I havent worked with them. If I remember correctly they do not backbud well though. I agree with @Clicio s suggestions

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I think this is an interesting project, but you have to introduce some interest into the straight trunk sections. You could definitely do it, but it would require some work...

Could you take some photos from other angles?

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

At the moment two things bother me the most;
- The straight up second trunk on the left;
- The straight dead on frontal branch that wants to be a trunk.
I will not risk a suggestion to take care of those issues, as chopchopchop is my second name.

Yeah, I know I need to get aggressive with the culling (decision making) at some point but with the major clean up I did I was unsure if I needed to let it recover. @JoeR is right that it is a Dwarf Alberta Spruce and the picture below shows how it started life (the interior was a mess of dead material). I was hoping that seeing some backbudding in the spring would help me make some decisions. The angle is wrong so it is hard to tell but I have 3 straight trunks to deal with. Once I remove 2 of those 3 trunks I lose a lot of the remaining foliage.

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

I think this is an interesting project, but you have to introduce some interest into the straight trunk sections. You could definitely do it, but it would require some work...

Could you take some photos from other angles?

Sure, just took these. FYI, there is at least two possible fronts to this once some decisions are made.

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

And any idea are welcome. This is currently beyond my abilities but as it is interesting I don't want to waste the material...

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

I'd think about a 2 year heavy feed then chop cycle for a while.

Sorce

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

Welcome to Crazy!

I'd think about a 2 year heavy feed then chop cycle for a while.

Sorce

My thoughts went the same way to really reduce its height but do you have any comp images/recommendations on what to go for?

 

[sorce]

My thoughts went the same way to really reduce its height but do you have any comp images/recommendations on what to go for?

There is a "correct" way for branches to eminate from the trunk. Sizes, locations, directions, etc, this seems all rather difficult with this material, since you already have what would be considered "sub-trunks", eminating upward from a tree that usually lack both upward movement and sub-trunks!

But of you look into rules about taper dimensions, good branch structure, etc, you'll find out how far you need bids to pop toward the trunk, for this to even be bothered with.

A tree @BobbyLane had was similar, he got rid of it. He may share some ideas that lead to that decision, but he may remember what he intended to do with it too.

Looks healthy. Much to learn!

Sorce

 

[0soyoung]

as it is interesting I don't want to waste the material.

What is interesting about it for you. Be specific, please.

Note that I'm not being snide. This is the question you must answer with anything you try to make into a bonsai, IMHO. IOW, this is part of the process.

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

The base of the tree and the number of options the competing trunks offers. And if I thought to change to orientation by 20 degrees (or more) what else opens up?

In a way it represents my skill potential in that I'm rough and not necessarily well suited for this art (I think I lack the creativity and vision this art demands) but if I can find something in this project perhaps I can find my voice.

Hopefully that doesn't come across as weird as I fear it might.

 

[BobbyLane]

There is a "correct" way for branches to eminate from the trunk. Sizes, locations, directions, etc, this seems all rather difficult with this material, since you already have what would be considered "sub-trunks", eminating upward from a tree that usually lack both upward movement and sub-trunks!

But of you look into rules about taper dimensions, good branch structure, etc, you'll find out how far you need bids to pop toward the trunk, for this to even be bothered with.

A tree @BobbyLane had was similar, he got rid of it. He may share some ideas that lead to that decision, but he may remember what he intended to do with it too.

Looks healthy. Much to learn!

Sorce

I think its going to be very difficult because all the foliage is out on the ends. if its a spruce which i think it is, then you cant just hack them back can you as the branches die. so in that case the foliage at the ends will need to be reduced gradually over time and even then you need to hope you get budding close to the trunk. you could hone your wire skills by having branches snake back in and out to give the 'illusion' that you have branches with 'close in' foliage. thats takes a little skill.
i will also predict that whats going to happen next is, the OP is going to get quite a bit of browning foliage, because when you remove so much outer growth on these nursery conifers the inside bits dont adjust to the light so well. i know, ive killed a few.

 

[JoeR]

The base of the tree and the number of options the competing trunks offers. And if I thought to change to orientation by 20 degrees (or more) what else opens up?

In a way it represents my skill potential in that I'm rough and not necessarily well suited for this art (I think I lack the creativity and vision this art demands) but if I can find something in this project perhaps I can find my voice.

Hopefully that doesn't come across as weird as I fear it might.

How long have you been working with bonsai? Sure, some people learn almost immediately the aesthetic skills necessary for a beautiful composition. Or even learned it in other arts and carry it over. But for the most part, it takes at least a few years to really even begin grasping the elements of design and how to employ them. Ryan Neil has mentioned before that interns under Mr. K in Japan would work on trees for years, resulting in mediocre work, and then suddenly one day- everything "clicks", and they begin making beautiful designs.

Patience, my friend, patience. And getting your hands dirty.

 

[Paradox]

The base is interesting but the only way IMO that this tree will ever make for a decent bonsai is if you can get it to back bud lower down so you can cut it down.
Dont cut anything without healthy foliage below it because that trunk will probably die.
I dont know how well or if they back bud at all.

I would start feeding it like crazy next year, do not repot and hope it back buds

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

So through me reading I've come to the understanding that this tree was not a good tree to "start" learning. That said now that it is growing I understand that if I want to "try" and encourage backbudding that I need to cut back the new growth but it is unclear through my reading as to how much to let it grow before cutting back. At what point can I continue this experiment? I just cannot find a ton of material on the Dwarf Alberta Spruce.

 

[Jiminsauga]

Here are two videos that may help guide your hand when it comes to spruce.

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

Here are two videos that may help guide your hand when it comes to spruce.

I just watched the first one and I'd seen the second one before. Both are excellent but neither cover how to encourage backbudding specifically. It's a problem with this tree particularly because of how dense it was.

 

[ShadyStump]

Noob, and no experience with spruce, but I've been aiming at pines since I started.
Spruce, to my understanding, can take a little more punishment than most pines in the relevant regards, so you have a little leeway with cutting new growth. Get it early, and only a portion of it at a time, and the growth hormones that would've gone to the new foliage will have to go somewhere else. I believe it would slowly start to back bud in the younger growth starting from the outermost foliage working inward.
But again, any needle conifers have a hard time back budding.

Stylistically, I like the idea of a conifer clump as your tree naturally is. They are rare in nature, growing a bit like what you have there- almost literati style with each trunk, and often lots of jins. Some people don't like the aesthetic, but it's rarity and rough appearance are what I find interesting about them.
I would use guy wires to separate the trunks and help create movement. If you get some good back budding over time, you'll have something truly unique, even if other folks don't like it.

Worst case, you had a steep learning curve and can teach others from your mistakes.

 

[0soyoung]

So through me reading I've come to the understanding that this tree was not a good tree to "start" learning.

You have an excuse/out for this tree not winning best of show at the National next winter.

If you want easy, get an azalea or two. They tend to go on sale after they have bloomed, but are not that expensive anyway because of their popularity and ease of propagation, in garden center nurseries.