clinoptilolite Zeolite

[defra]

In reasearching different soils
I was already aware of this product and research tells me it sounds real great for bonsai good size particles high cec levels and holds a good amount of water all natural np chemical additions
Found a bag of this stuff in a pet store 13€ for 25 kilo pre sifted in particle size 2,5 mm to 5 mm worth a try i think !

So now i am wondering if anyone here has experience with clinoptilolite Zeolite ?

 

[Starfox]

I'm glad you asked this question, I brought an orchid type pot the other day and it came with a bag of Zeolite from the maker Lechuza pon. I had no idea it was even in the box but it does look pretty good stuff and with a nice small particle size. I'm going to keep it and mix it with some Kanuma and wood chips for my mame contest trees. Plenty of people use it that I have seen but I have no experience of it myself yet.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

In reasearching different soils
I was already aware of this product and research tells me it sounds real great for bonsai good size particles high cec levels and holds a good amount of water all natural np chemical additions
Found a bag of this stuff in a pet store 13€ for 25 kilo pre sifted in particle size 2,5 mm to 5 mm worth a try i think !

So now i am wondering if anyone here has experience with clinoptilolite Zeolite ?

Hi defra,
I have been trialing Zeolite as a 30% part to my Bonsai soil. That with 30% pine bark and 40% Pumice.
A fact to consider is it has a high pH, somewhere round 7.5 - 8.5, so the fear of hard water to irrigate with puts your whole growing out of balance, as most trees like it between 5-6 pH.
Why I like it is it does hold good moisture, as you said, and drains freely, and my opinion is it can work nicely in conjunction with pine bark as the bark is quite to a lot acidic to do the balance thing.
Maybe @Leo in N E Illinois could give us some pointers to help this thread along please.
I have put my Azaleas into this mix as a tester and they seem happy enough, although the pot design is a bit flat for drainage. My mistake is that the original recipe I set up had 50% pine bark, and that with the Zeolite has meant it holds a lot of moisture.
Anyway I support your bonsai soil endeavors.
Charles

 

[defra]

So here are my first findings:
Dice for size:


Color turns with a blue glaze when whet


Sifted out a little dust and weight off 100 grams of zeolite


Soaked the sifted 100 grams to measure how much water it holds came out at 116 gram so a difference of 16 grams equals 16 ml of water

 

[defra]

The manufacturer of this stuff i bought says this abot cation exchange capacity
CEC = 120 - 150 Meg/100

 

[defra]

Hi defra,
I have been trialing Zeolite as a 30% part to my Bonsai soil. That with 30% pine bark and 40% Pumice.
A fact to consider is it has a high pH, somewhere round 7.5 - 8.5, so the fear of hard water to irrigate with puts your whole growing out of balance, as most trees like it between 5-6 pH.
Why I like it is it does hold good moisture, as you said, and drains freely, and my opinion is it can work nicely in conjunction with pine bark as the bark is quite to a lot acidic to do the balance thing.
Maybe @Leo in N E Illinois could give us some pointers to help this thread along please.
I have put my Azaleas into this mix as a tester and they seem happy enough, although the pot design is a bit flat for drainage. My mistake is that the original recipe I set up had 50% pine bark, and that with the Zeolite has meant it holds a lot of moisture.
Anyway I support your bonsai soil endeavors. View attachment 180831
Charles

Where did you find the ph levels?
My source says it is lower probably it varies from where its dug?

This is the datasheet from the brand i bought info is based on the zeolite that comes out the mine they get it from
http://www.zeolite-products.com/media/files/Datasheet-82-84-2016.pdf

 

[petegreg]

We probably have the same or very similar zeolite source here. Turning blueish when wet. It was my first touch with different soil when I switched to inorganic growing (not mentioning akadama and kanuma), I had a bag of the same fraction I used straight. Some trees are still growing in it without repotting, some were repotted and zeolite used for mixes like zeolite /DE, or zeolite/DE/lava... All are good and the only difference and disadvantage I can see...zeolite is so heavy.

 

[defra]

Anyway I support your bonsai soil endeavors.
Charles

Thnx the reason why i do this is to document the different property's of the different soils out there that are availible in the netherlands and belgium so other bonsai enthousiast can use it to help decide what kind of materials there are to mix something that will work best for them.

When i finished all the info gathering allong with some tests ill translate all the results to english to share here only i dont know how accurate the info will be for other country's because the products i test and write about come from europe and there might be different values in ph and such due to different mining places etc

 

[defra]

We probably have the same or very similar zeolite source here. Turning blueish when wet. It was my first touch with different soil when I switched to inorganic growing (not mentioning akadama and kanuma), I had a bag of the same fraction I used straight. Some trees are still growing in it without repotting, some were repotted and zeolite used for mixes like zeolite /DE, or zeolite/DE/lava... All are good and the only difference and disadvantage I can see...zeolite is so heavy.

Thnx ! Yes it sure is heavy !
The brand i bought is zeopet
http://www.zeolite-products.com
Only cant find an english version of the site tough

 

[AlainK]

I have a bag of "Chabazite", which is a type of Zeolite. It turns light brown, like Akadama, when wet.

Some people here are real fans, others say one should be careful because it pumps out water from the other elements in the soil, including the roots of the tree, when it's hot in summer.

So I use it sparingly in some soil mixes.

 

[defra]

I have a bag of "Chabazite", which is a type of Zeolite. It turns light brown, like Akadama, when wet.

Some people here are real fans, others say one should be careful because it pumps out water from the other elements in the soil, including the roots of the tree, when it's hot in summer.

So I use it sparingly in some soil mixes.

Ah thats the kind of things that should be tested and i want to know thnx!

I will start by adding dry zeolite to wet DE and see how fast the zeolite soaks up the moist out of the DE and also i will compare the time it takes for DE and zeolite to dry up if the zeolite dries way faster then other soil components it will theoretical explain why it would suck out moisture from the other components

 

[petegreg]

Thnx ! Yes it sure is heavy !
The brand i bought is zeopet
http://www.zeolite-products.com
Only cant find an english version of the site tough

This is the source our zeolite comes from.
http://www.zeocem.com/en/zeolite

 

[Anthony]

http://www.zeolite.com.au/products/agriculture.html

see agriculture and horticulture ------ nice carrots

http://www.agriculturejournals.cz/publicFiles/13722.pdf

Safety first -
As usual please check- breathing with the powder.

Much used by the Ausbonsai folk, so you can take a read there as well.
Nice to see that it does not break down over time, in use.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[peh3]

Zeolite is used to filter water. When I did some research on soil I've read somewhere that you should not use too much zeolite in your soil mixture as it takes alot of water in, but doesn't release it as easily. Trying to find the source to that right now.

 

[defra]

Zeolite is used to filter water. When I did some research on soil I've read somewhere that you should not use too much zeolite in your soil mixture as it takes alot of water in, but doesn't release it as easily. Trying to find the source to that right now.

Its used for manny things !
Hope you find it!

But my test does say it doesnt hold that much water tough at least the one i have

 

[defra]

Ok the thing mentioned a couple times now that the zeolite draws moisture from other substrates could be something to be aware of when its used so i want to test it some to see how it reacts

Ive run serval tests with different soil types by let it soak up water to the maximum and measure the weight to know how much water it absorbs per 100 grams

Step 2:
I put it aside to see how long it takes to dry up inside my house around 20 °c far away from heating source, this doesnt give acurate figures tough because inside there is no influence of sun, wind or water taken by the roots so i reckon outside in use it dries up faster

The zeolite from my test soaked up 16 ml water way less then i expected....

The zeolite was measured at 10:30 this morning after it was soaked and now 19:30 it is down from 116 gram to 111 gram so far 5 ml water is evaporated from the soil in 9 hours


My DE (litterbox substrate)
I measured 100 gr dry and after soaking its weight was 163 gr way more than zeolite but the exact same way of measuring shows that the DE drys a little faster after 3 hours it already lost 4 ml of water

So now i am wondering isnt it better to measure by volume and not in weight because zeolite is heavier then DE so 100 grams of DE is made up out of more particles that have the abbility to soak up water and volume is also the way how we mix our soil ... anyone has sugestions/ideas?

 

[defra]

http://www.zeolite.com.au/products/agriculture.html

see agriculture and horticulture ------ nice carrots

http://www.agriculturejournals.cz/publicFiles/13722.pdf

Safety first -
As usual please check- breathing with the powder.

Much used by the Ausbonsai folk, so you can take a read there as well.
Nice to see that it does not break down over time, in use.
Good Day
Anthony

Thnx allot anthony !
First link is realy well explained and understandable but the seccond one makes me feel dizzy and i cant understand of what they try to say their experiment results were about

 

[Starfox]

Volume sounds good as it will always be the same volume in a pot, Vance once suggested something similar using plastic cups, I would try a few different sizes ranging from small to larger volumes.

 

[defra]

Yes i think i will gather all the different soils available here and sift them to the same particle sizes and work by volume to do the "drying up" test to get good compared results of each different type of soil on how long it takes to dry up completely

Ill ad a diaper test too...
Soaking up water is one thing...
But more important probably is how well does the soil give back the water to something else
Diaper?
Yes diapers are great moist absorbers
Ill soak the soil
Put it in a diaper and after like 5 mins i weigh the soil once more to see how much water will be absorbed by the diaper wich will tell if the ability to release the moist is either good or bad

Ill have to think this trough a bit to figure out to do this right any sugestions are welcome!

 

[Wilson]

I have a bag of "Chabazite", which is a type of Zeolite. It turns light brown, like Akadama, when wet.

Some people here are real fans, others say one should be careful because it pumps out water from the other elements in the soil, including the roots of the tree, when it's hot in summer.

So I use it sparingly in some soil mixes.

Chabasai is a central ingredient for us in Montréal, I like it a lot!